And The GC 36 quotes tells HOW the punishment happens. And it is God letting go. " God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of light rejected,..." Why do you reject this light???? The quote continues: " Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. {GC 36.1}"

So let's get out of our comfort zone.

Whose doing is it that the soul that sins will die? Whose doing is it that the wages of sin is death? Who made it so that separation from God means certain death?

It was God who made things that way. If Satan could have his way, he would have immortal sinners. It is God's will that sinners are NOT immortal.

Are we still in agreement?

Not quite. There is a dimension missing.

Was it God or Satan who brought sin into the universe?

I could have added another question.

Was it for His own good that God brought sin into the universe?

There are some people who make the claim He did?

Your questions are too close to that question for comfort.

I had skipped ahead of this. I didn't think we needed to cover it. Sorry about that.

Satan brought sin into the universe. But please don't ask me for a mechanism. It is still a mystery to me.

But I don't see how that changes the fact that God was the one who decided that sin always results in death. Satan prefers the "sin and live" philosophy.


Answers: No; I know.

I don't mind getting into uncomfortable situations. If I stayed with what I was comfortable with, I would be doomed to error and sin continually.

You are a pastor by training, while I an engineer. It is very easy for me to understand how and why a system, such as the universe, should be designed to handle undesired conditions, such as sin, in as smooth and hamless a way as possible. Just because I design my system to handle error doesn't mean I want or expect error. Such designs are part of engineering training and experience, but might not be included in a pastor's.

You answered that yourself. If you understood the mechanism there would also be a mechanism by which sin and death could be eliminated by a clever engineer. Why? Will we ever be able to explain and decide whose fault it is how all the laws of nature function? Perhaps an engineer wants it that way, while I do not need it.


Dealing with the sin question indefinitely can be very dangerous. By observation you are changed. . .

You answered that yourself. I have a son who is an engineer. He happens to be a carpenter as well. In the beginning of his studies I was, at times, able to make some suggestions. That time has passed. Now I ask him.

Sin is destructive by its very nature causing people to develop habits and pursue activities that are damaging and hurtful to themselves, to others, and to environment.

If it weren't for God's grace, sin motivated beings would have destroyed the world and everything in it long ago.
God's plan of "restoration" of human beings would have failed.
The good wouldn't have had a chance, for the evil would have wiped it out completely, and millions would never have heard the good news of God's saving grace.

It is the mercy and goodness of God that He not only restrains evil, but periodically wiped out the evil BEFORE it could wipe out the good and those who were still open to responding to good.

God has always sought to restore as many as possible.

The fury of evil inspired groups to wipe out the good has been demonstrated throughout history but it will be fully demonstrated in the last days.
Rebellion against God's ways will soon be given unchecked reign and what happens?
The world will be plunged into a reign of terror.
And what happens to God's faithful?
They will be persecuted, blamed for the terrible things happening in the world, a death decree made against them with the plan to wipe them out completely from the face of the earth.

But just before this happens, God steps in and delivers His people. The wicked are arrested in their evil quest and given a supernatural demonstration of God's law. The wicked then turn on each other -- the earth will be a terrible place.

When Christ comes the faithful will be joyfully coming out of the caves and hiding places to welcome their Savior and meet Him in the air, while the wicked run for those caves and beg the mountains to hide them from the wrath of the lamb --the wicked are destroyed by the brightness of His coming. Sin laden humans cannot survive in the full glory of holiness of the Lamb.

Yes, God loves every person --but he abhors evil, and right now is urgently calling all into the ark of salvation in Jesus Christ. No one has to be outside of that love and mercy, the door of mercy is still wide open.

I think I've discovered something interesting now. You see the laws of nature as someone's "fault" rather than something to be thankful for. I disagree. I'll return to it later.

No. I was just responding to what I thought you were saying. Perhaps you did not mean it that way?

Well, I don't know what you thought I was saying, so I don't know if it's accurate.

Regardless, you described the laws of nature as someone's fault rather than someone's credit. This reveals a certain mindset about how the universe works. Either God created the laws of nature or Satan did. And the result of that creation is either a credit or a fault.

But let's not confuse this with the ideal.