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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: asygo] #156456
09/23/13 01:03 AM
09/23/13 01:03 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
Even though God did not intend for sin to enter the universe, it was His plan that death will always come with sin. His original plan was to give eternal life to all, but it was also His plan that the wages of sin is death.

Can anyone disagree with this?


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: asygo] #156459
09/23/13 02:06 AM
09/23/13 02:06 AM
APL  Offline
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Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
No. God's plan was for no sin.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: APL] #156466
09/23/13 05:29 AM
09/23/13 05:29 AM
Johann  Offline
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Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Quote:
It is impossible to explain the origin of sin so as to give a reason for its existence. Yet enough may be understood concerning both the origin and the final disposition of sin to make fully manifest the justice and benevolence of God in all His dealings with evil. Nothing is more plainly taught in Scripture than that God was in no wise responsible for the entrance of sin; that there was no arbitrary withdrawal of divine grace, no deficiency in the divine government, that gave occasion for the uprising of rebellion. Sin is an intruder, for whose presence no reason can be given. It is mysterious, unaccountable; to excuse it is to defend it. Could excuse for it be found, or cause be shown for its existence, it would cease to be sin. Our only definition of sin is that given in the word of God; it is “the transgression of the law;” it is the outworking of a principle at war with the great law of love which is the foundation of the divine government. {GC 492.2}


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: Johann] #156489
09/23/13 10:40 AM
09/23/13 10:40 AM
Johann  Offline
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Retired Pastor
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
From Norway we see the news that the Lord saved the lives of Lutheran Missionaries in Nairobi last Saturday.

Was God not with those missionaries who were killed?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: Johann] #156490
09/23/13 11:35 AM
09/23/13 11:35 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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The Orient
Originally Posted By: Johann
From Norway we see the news that the Lord saved the lives of Lutheran Missionaries in Nairobi last Saturday.

Was God not with those missionaries who were killed?

That's an interesting question. I was an active participant to fighting a forest fire some years ago that burned through three homes before miraculously stopping at the edge of tithe-paying Adventist property in answer to their prayer claiming the promise of Malachi 3:10-11. The story became national news. The news reporters interviewed the property owner, who told about his prayer and praised the Lord for His protection. The other homes had also been owned by Christians, Sunday-keepers, and they were unhappy that God had not protected their property likewise.

Does God keep His promises? Yes. Does God keep unclaimed and/or unearned promises? Not necessarily. Is God obligated to protect us if in His providence He sees more value in allowing harm to come to us?

I am thankful God is faithful, and we can trust Him always, come what may. As the Bible says, "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: asygo] #156502
09/23/13 02:08 PM
09/23/13 02:08 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
Even though God did not intend for sin to enter the universe, it was His plan that death will always come with sin. His original plan was to give eternal life to all, but it was also His plan that the wages of sin is death. Can anyone disagree with this?

Capital punishment is the consequence of sin.

Quote:
Fallen man, because of his guilt, could no longer come directly before God with his supplications; for his transgression of the divine law had placed an impassable barrier between the holy God and the transgressor. But a plan was devised that the sentence of death should rest upon a Substitute. In the plan of redemption there must be the shedding of blood, for death must come in consequence of man's sin. The beasts for sacrificial offerings were to prefigure Christ. In the slain victim, man was to see the fulfillment for the time being of God's word, "Thou shalt surely die." And the flowing of the blood from the victim would also signify an atonement. There was no virtue in the blood of animals; but the shedding of the blood of beasts was to point forward to a Redeemer who would one day come to the world and die for the sins of men. And thus Christ would fully vindicate His Father's law. {Con 21.3}

There is more at stake than the salvation of sinners. The Law of God must be vindicated. The peace and happiness of the Universe depends on it.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: Green Cochoa] #156503
09/23/13 02:31 PM
09/23/13 02:31 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
J: Was God not with those missionaries who were killed?

G: Is God obligated to protect us if in His providence He sees more value in allowing harm to come to us?

To suffer and die for God is honorable. Jesus Himself suffered and died. Anytime a faithful believer suffers or dies it serves a greater purpose. I am thankful for the times circumstances permit Jesus to preserve people from loss, harm, or death. However, I am not disappointed or discouraged when circumstances force Jesus to allow it. He is in control - not sin, not death, not sinners. Jesus can start or stop anything. Nothing happens by chance or fate. Evil angels are not at liberty to cause disease, death, or destruction. Jesus establishes limits and works to ensure evil angels do not exceed them.

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: Mountain Man] #156506
09/23/13 03:52 PM
09/23/13 03:52 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: mm
Jesus can start or stop anything. Nothing happens by chance or fate. Evil angels are not at liberty to cause disease, death, or destruction. Jesus establishes limits and works to ensure evil angels do not exceed them.
God then condones rape and murder, for God can start and stop anything.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: APL] #156510
09/23/13 04:07 PM
09/23/13 04:07 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Condones?

Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2) [Re: Mountain Man] #156513
09/23/13 07:16 PM
09/23/13 07:16 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Condones?
You said God can start or stop anything.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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