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Re: First Angel's Message
[Re: James Peterson]
#156658
09/27/13 01:43 AM
09/27/13 01:43 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Posts: 6,468
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John 12:31-32 this isn't speaking of the same time and event as Revelation 14. In John 12 Jesus is speaking of His death upon the cross. 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. 12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. But that is not the same "hour of judgment" that is spoken of in Rev. 14. Revelation 14 speaks of a judgment hour just before the second coming. 'Fear God and give glory to Him, FOR THE HOUR OF HIS JUDGEMENT HAS COME; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.'" This is the same thing Jesus says, "NOW IS THE JUDGEMENT OF THIS WORLD; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." Read carefully about how He defines JUDGEMENT: "now the ruler of this world will be cast out. Yes, read carefully, for in John 12:31-33 it says plainly that Jesus was speaking of His death upon the cross. This event marked the defeat of Satan as ruler of this world. Satan was "cast out" twice already. 1) Before the creation of this world when he rebelled against God and deceived 1/3 of the angels. However, in the book of Job we read of him walking the earth, yet he still had access to the counsel meetings of heavenly beings. He still had some sympathy in the minds of heavenly beings who did not yet fully understand the malignancy of his deceptive ways. 2) At the cross Satan fully exposed his utter evilness, while the Creator revealed He loved mankind enough to take their sin and punishment in order to offer them life! Christ's resurrection was the triumphant victory over sin and death. At this point Satan was defeated --he was fully cast out from heaven and lost any claim to the dominion of this earth. Rev. 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. The above casting out, is NOT at the end of the world but at the time of Christ's death and resurrection, Satan was now a defeated enemy. Yet it's not the end for satan is still active, furiously doing his best to destroy God's people. But God's faithful overcome by the blood of the lamb and their testimony. Revelation 14 takes us to the last days and is speaking of a different judgment. It is NOT the judgment of satan -- he already is a defeated foe. This is God's judgment "the hour of HIS judgment is come"This is when Christ "the Son of man" appears before the celestial court (as described in Daniel 7) and to HIM is given the dominion and kingdom of this world. He in turn presents the names of those who "have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb" and overcome in his power. (See Rev. 3:5 and 7:14)) And Daniel 7 tells us judgment is given in their favor and they will inherit the earth with Jesus, while the evil usurper and his worshippers are destroyed.
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Re: First Angel's Message
[Re: dedication]
#156673
09/27/13 06:45 AM
09/27/13 06:45 AM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
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John 12:31-32 this isn't speaking of the same time and event as Revelation 14. In John 12 Jesus is speaking of His death upon the cross. 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. 12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. But that is not the same "hour of judgment" that is spoken of in Rev. 14. Revelation 14 speaks of a judgment hour just before the second coming. 'Fear God and give glory to Him, FOR THE HOUR OF HIS JUDGEMENT HAS COME; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.'" This is the same thing Jesus says, "NOW IS THE JUDGEMENT OF THIS WORLD; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." Read carefully about how He defines JUDGEMENT: "now the ruler of this world will be cast out. Yes, read carefully, for in John 12:31-33 it says plainly that Jesus was speaking of His death upon the cross. This event marked the defeat of Satan as ruler of this world. Satan was "cast out" twice already. 1) Before the creation of this world when he rebelled against God and deceived 1/3 of the angels. However, in the book of Job we read of him walking the earth, yet he still had access to the counsel meetings of heavenly beings. He still had some sympathy in the minds of heavenly beings who did not yet fully understand the malignancy of his deceptive ways. 2) At the cross Satan fully exposed his utter evilness, while the Creator revealed He loved mankind enough to take their sin and punishment in order to offer them life! Christ's resurrection was the triumphant victory over sin and death. At this point Satan was defeated --he was fully cast out from heaven and lost any claim to the dominion of this earth. Rev. 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. The above casting out, is NOT at the end of the world but at the time of Christ's death and resurrection, Satan was now a defeated enemy. Yet it's not the end for satan is still active, furiously doing his best to destroy God's people. But God's faithful overcome by the blood of the lamb and their testimony. Revelation 14 takes us to the last days and is speaking of a different judgment. It is NOT the judgment of satan -- he already is a defeated foe. This is God's judgment "the hour of HIS judgment is come"This is when Christ "the Son of man" appears before the celestial court (as described in Daniel 7) and to HIM is given the dominion and kingdom of this world. He in turn presents the names of those who "have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb" and overcome in his power. (See Rev. 3:5 and 7:14)) And Daniel 7 tells us judgment is given in their favor and they will inherit the earth with Jesus, while the evil usurper and his worshippers are destroyed. ******* STAFF EDIT *******.... ..
Last edited by Daryl; 10/18/13 03:24 PM. Reason: Staff Edit done.
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Re: First Angel's Message
[Re: James Peterson]
#156706
09/28/13 04:50 AM
09/28/13 04:50 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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A biblical presentation
Rev. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
THE JUDGMENT SCENE DISCRIBED
Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of days was seated; His garment was white as snow, And the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, Its wheels a burning fire; 10 A fiery stream issued And came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, And the books were opened.
WHO IS BROUGHT BEFORE THIS ASSEMBLED COURT?
Daniel 7:13 “I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.
WHAT IS THE FIRST DECISION OF THE COURT?
Dan. 7:14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.
WHAT DOES JESUS PRESENT TO THE COURT?
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I (Jesus) will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Matt. 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mal. 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard [it], and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
WHAT IS GOING ON DOWN HERE ON EARTH?
Daniel 7:21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,
WHAT JUDGMENT IS GIVEN TO THE OVERCOMERS?
Dan.7 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
WHAT JUDGMENT AGAINST THIS PERSECUTING HORN?
Daniel 7:26 the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his (the stout horn's) dominion, To consume and destroy it forever.
Rev. 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
THE END OF THE INVESTIGATION ANNOUNCES
Rev. 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
JESUS COMES WITH THE REWARDS ALREADY DETERMINED Rev. 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Daniel 7:27 Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
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Re: First Angel's Message
[Re: dedication]
#156778
10/01/13 04:06 AM
10/01/13 04:06 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,468
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So we see that the three angels are heralding the eminent coming of Christ.
The first angel announces the hour of God's judgment is come. The timelines outlining earth's history have reached their termination point and earth has entered the "time of the end".
In Daniel 8 we hear the question: 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long the vision (The vision began with Persia and moved on to Greece and on to the Roman horn) 2300 years.
The daily removed and the abomination of desolation set up is 1290 days (years) according to Daniel 12:11, which would be part of the 2300 years as they are also part of the vision in Daniel 8 and included in the question "How long the vision [concerning] the daily [sacrifice], and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?"
The vision reaches to "the time of the end" Daniel 8:17 "So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end the vision."
The endpoint of the vision is for the time of the end and points to the cleansing of the sanctuary.
For the meaning of this cleansing we look to the day of Atonement.
The word in Daniel 8:14 is (#6663) “ntsadaq” from "tsadaq" which has a forensic meaning of “justify, vindicate, clear, made righteousness, cleanse" . Forensic means it is connected with or used in courts of law. The word used in Daniel is a stronger, term then the “cleansed” used in Leviticus, for this cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary IS THE REAL THING. Indeed this passage might well be translated: “Then shall the sanctuary have atonement made for it”. Remember that the REAL “cleansing“ must be done with the BETTER sacrifice of Christ. (see Heb. 9:23) When Christ cleanses the heavenly sanctuary it will stand in the courts of eternal law for all eternity.
“Then shall the sanctuary be cleansed” announces the beginning of the great Day of Atonement. It is the beginning of the judicial court conducted in heaven as outlined in Daniel 7, when the ancient of Days takes His seat, and all the angels are witnesses, the books are opened and the court is in session.
Following this judicial court, the counterfeit “religious” horn and beast is destroyed and God’s saints receive the inheritance.
So the three angels announcing the judgment hour announce both the trial or investigation period and the execution of that judgment.
This is the last work of our great High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary, before He comes in the clouds of glory to this earth to claim His redeemed ones.
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Re: First Angel's Message
[Re: dedication]
#156937
10/07/13 11:36 PM
10/07/13 11:36 PM
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Bumping this to keep it in the Active Topics list.
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Re: First Angel's Message
[Re: Daryl]
#156957
10/09/13 12:11 AM
10/09/13 12:11 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,468
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Understanding the "Hour" The use of the word "hour" G5610 in scripture suggests the speaker is talking about something to occur at "that same time" or within a very short time. For example: Matt. 8:13 "And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour" Matt. 9:22 "And the woman was made whole from that hour" Matt. 10:19 "take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour" Rev. 3:10 " I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Rev. 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake
And notice in the chapter of Revelation 14 there are TWO different "the hour is come" verses, describing two different "time has come" for two different events. First: The first angel announces Rev. 14:7 "the hour (G5610) of his judgment is come"The Greek in the aorist tense carries the idea that this hour HAS arrived. When the first message goes forth the judgment has begun. Then comes angel two and three with their messages of warning urging people to come out of Babylon and not follow the crowds into false worship -- and AFTER these three angels' messages, and a blessing is pronounced on those who keep God's commandments and have the faith of Jesus, we read Rev. 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the hour(G5610) is come for thee to reap;
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Re: First Angel's Message
[Re: dedication]
#157102
10/12/13 03:35 AM
10/12/13 03:35 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and fountains of water.
In this statement He is giving His "signature".
God is the Creator -- the One Who designed and made us. It is His act of creation that gives Him fully right to demand obedience from His creatures.
This whole controversy over worship in Rev. 12-14 is over worship and focuses special attention to those who: keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.
Only one commandment has God's signature -- the fourth --Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
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Re: First Angel's Message
[Re: dedication]
#157106
10/12/13 09:38 AM
10/12/13 09:38 AM
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dedication, I sent you a PM.
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Re: First Angel's Message
[Re: dedication]
#157188
10/15/13 05:57 AM
10/15/13 05:57 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Coupled with the three angel's messages is what used to be known as the "sealing message".
This was considered of utmost importance because every individual will receive either the seal of the living God or the mark of the beast. There is no neutral ground, whether a person wants it or not, believes or disbelieves their destiny will be in one group or the other.
The seal is linked to the Sabbath -- the one command that bears the signature of the Creator God.
Yet, Not all who profess to keep the Sabbath will be sealed. There are many even among those who teach the truth to others who will not receive the seal of God in their foreheads.
So what is involved in this sealing message?
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Re: First Angel's Message
[Re: dedication]
#161715
02/13/14 06:27 AM
02/13/14 06:27 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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There are several "judgments" in scripture, and really no need to confuse them.
Satan was defeated at the cross. When Jesus cried out -- "It is finished;" Satan knew that he had been defeated in his purpose to overthrow the plan of salvation.
Colossians 1:20-22 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel.
The last sentence leads us to understand why there needs to be an "investigating" judgment. Not all who accept the wonderful gift of salvation continue in that hope.
This need for the judgment is not understand by people who believe "once saved always saved" or by those who believe everyone will be saved in the end.
But the text includes an "IF"
"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled"
So, near the end of earth's history, but before the second coming, the Bible shows us the court scene.
Daniel 7:9 As I watched, thrones were set in place, and an Ancient One took his throne, his clothing was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames, and its wheels were burning fire. 10 A stream of fire issued and flowed out from his presence. A thousand thousands served him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood attending him. The court sat in judgment, and the books were opened. NRST
Oh, some will say, that judgment was just to judge the stout little horn.
Yes, it does that -- but consider what that horn represents. That horn represents the papal dominated Christian world. For centuries this self proclaimed representative of Christ has slain the opposers to her doctrinal and temporal authority. The martyrs blood is crying up to God for judgment and justice. (See fifth seal) -- are they really condemned heretics as the dominating church says?
It's not to inform God, but to make all things clear as each name is brought before the court. They are not judged by groups -- each individual is investigated. There will be Catholics accepted (as well as many rejected). There will be Waldenses rejected, (as well as many accepted). And as the judgment comes closer to our day, there will be Advenstists reject, as well as Adventist accepted. And there will be people from other denominations who are accepted.
What? How could that be?
Jesus points to the books and says -- look and see how they trusted me, look at their faith in me, look at their repentance, look at the good works they allowed the Holy Spirit to guide them too.
And all heaven breaks out in singing over one more soul that repented and turned to accept and follow Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
But how many times sadness enters the heavenly court as it is seen that professing believers showed by their lives that self was their lord, not the One Whose name they carried.
Revelation 3:5 He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Matt. 10:32-33 Whosoever therefore shall acknowledge me before men, him will I also acknowledge before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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