Found on Facebook



This came to me via Bob Cargill and Thom Stark on Facebook. It nicely makes the point that many Christian views of “salvation” are more like “protection” in the sense that word has in protection rackets. The one “protecting” you is also the one they are protecting you from.
Perhaps genuine salvation ought to save us first and foremost from imagining God and/or Jesus as being like a human gangster?

James McGrath

Revelation
14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The devil doesn't like that book of Revelation. Perhaps this is why the book is missing from the corrupted codices (manuscripts) from which are translated the modern Bible versions.

But John the Revelator spelled out some important truths in the messages he was given.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Knock Knock

"From what will happen to you in the day I destroy sin."

1Thess 1:10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

We've talked about how Jesus destroyed Jerusalem. There are varying points of disagreement, but here is how I see it.

1) Agent(s) of destruction
2) Reason for destruction
3) Is the destruction just

Upon those three points, much talk has been wasted. As I see it, God is behind all destruction of sin. Sin does not wish to be destroyed, and it does not destroy itself.

However, the "agent" of destruction may not be God in person, but another entity employed by Him to accomplish His purposes. In the case of Jerusalem, it was Titus and his army.

The reason for destruction is always sin. I don't believe there is much disagreement on this point, except as it is conflated with the "agent" when using the term "cause."

Whether or not the destruction is "just" is a matter of perspective. Those on God's side will see it for what it is, and understand the justice of it. Satan, however, will tempt all to view it as harsh and arbitrary, and so many are deceived into thinking that God's judgments are not just.

Most of this thread is based on the above misunderstanding. The theology of certain of these individuals who hold that destruction cannot ever be just is twisted to make it appear that the judgments come not from God, but from Satan and/or a non-sentient "sin" (impossible logic, really).

But let's look more closely at Jerusalem. As Rosangela has apty quipped, God will save people "from what will happen to [them] in the day [He] destroys sin." Jesus saved the Christians out of Jerusalem. Not one single Christian perished in that destruction. Why? "My sheep hear my voice." They obeyed His commandment to flee after seeing the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place.

Anyone could have fled the city. No one needed to perish. The prophecy was clear both of what would happen and of how to escape it. When they chose to harden their hearts, they chose their destruction. Jesus was saddened about it to the point of tears full 40 years before the event. But just because He was sad that it should happen, didn't mean He would be too merciful to permit it. In fact, the full destruction was in His control. Titus himself did not wish to destroy the city, especially the temple. He tried to prevent it. He commanded his troops, multiple times, to preserve the temple at all costs. But God overruled.



The future destruction is just as surely prophesied. And the message is just as clear to us today: "Come out of her, my people!"

None need perish.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Rosangela - - PLEASE - Define God's wrath. HINT - Romans 1 is a good place to start.

Jesus warning sinners to avoid the coming wrath of God, the seven last plagues is right and loving. Embrace My love or you shall surely suffer and die.

"And, on the other hand, the judgments of God pronounced against sin, the inevitable retribution, the degradation of our character, and the final destruction, are presented in God's word to warn us against the service of Satan. {SC 21.4}

To say the seven last plagues will cause death and destruction when Jesus ceases to restrain the pent up forces of nature is to say the forces of nature are self-acting.


Jesus does not work to prevent the forces of nature from naturally causing the seven last plagues. The forces of nature would cease to do anything if Jesus ceased to employ them. Nature does what it does because Jesus wields it to serve His purposes. The seven last plagues will do what the Bible says they will do because Jesus will employ them accordingly.

This is true even when Jesus permits evil angels to use the forces of nature to cause death and destruction. That is, nature doesn't do what it does when evil angels are permitted to employ them as weapons because evil angels have power to cause the forces of nature to act. Evil angels cannot cause nature to act. Only Jesus can do it.

MM, is sin self acting? Does sin have an affect? If you sin, will there be results without God doing anything to you? Suppose I smoke. Is it God who inflicts me with cancer?

If God ceases to hold the four winds, do you think they will blow?

So God causes hurricanes, tornadoes, forest fires? "Acts of God", right?

If my sons and daughters were eating together and a great wind came and smote them, is that because God was striking them or me?

Really. Guess it must be true then. It has to be God against them or me.

What do you think: The nuclear reactors in Japan are continuing to spew and leak radiation out. Is that a cause and effect or is that "nature" and God is causing it? Does nature mined out of the ground becomes no longer "nature"? Is fire "nature"? Is a forest fire set by lightning "nature" but a forest fire set by careless campers not "nature"? Then is a forest fire undetermined unable to be determined whether it was God's "wrath" or not?



And Jesus was warning Israel to avoid His wrath through Ezekiel, too.

Eze 5:13 Thus shall mine anger be accomplished, and I will cause my wrath toward them to rest, and I shall be comforted; and they shall know that I, Jehovah, have spoken in my zeal, when I have accomplished my wrath upon them. (ASV)

And how did He accomplish His wrath?

Eze 5:15 So it shall be a reproach and a taunt, an instruction and an astonishment, unto the nations that are round about thee, when I shall execute judgments on thee in anger and in wrath, and in wrathful rebukes; (I, Jehovah, have spoken it;) (ASV)

So He used them as an example of what He'll do to those who don't follow Him. And what did He do to them?

WHO is being talked about in the quotation? Is it God? NO! What is God's roll in the last plagues? How do God's angels have power to harm the earth? By removing his protection.