Johann,

Certainly we are far from the days of the Reformation in which men would die for the purity of God's Word. The Bible has its own policy concerning how it is to be regarded.



God has very carefully thought out His words. Is it right for us to use them carelessly, or be indifferent toward the wording, thinking that almost any old way of saying it is equal to His way?



Jesus, in His sermon on the mount, tells us that not so much as the dotting of an "I" or the crossing of a "T" shall be changed in the law. Think about this. He did not say "one word of the law." He did not say "one letter of the law." He speaks of a fraction of one letter of one word of the law!



It might be one thing to remove a jot or a tittle, but if you come to the point of adding or removing entire words, God has some serious words for you, and a non-eternal destiny.

Personally, in light of the Bible's own teachings on the sacredness of God's Word, I would fear and tremble to be involved in any translation of it. It is a solemn task to handle the Word of God. It is rather disappointing to see key concepts erased by the modern perversions of the Bible, which flippantly change the words of God wheresoever they choose.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I strongly agree. Those who truly want to understand and learn what it says and means, have the obligation to dig below the surface. With all the resources we have showing how the true text was preserved time after time by Gods own hand, shouldnt we take the time to discover what was being saved so we could read the truth which God protected through the centuries, rather than a corrupted or mutilated translation.

Rick

"Many manuscripts," Johann? Do you know how many?



By far the majority of the manuscripts include the phrase, and only a small minority omit it. Then these modern translations, who have no respect for the wording of the Bible, omit the phrase themselves (to hide their shame, I suppose). The AMP, which italicizes it, adds this in its footnote: "Some manuscripts add this phrase." Add it?! What they should say is "the majority of manuscripts include this phrase," or "several manuscripts omit this phrase."

The Boharic and Coptic manuscripts were edited by the Catholics. That would be the reason for the omissions we find in them.

Regarding the tables, I like tables. They help me make sense out of a jumble of text. That is why I use them. But in this forum, one must have Daryl's permission to use HTML, and then the understanding of HTML tables, to be able to make them. The forum does not provide its own codes for tables, unfortunately.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Green......



You're silly.


I was surprised Rick espoused an emotional opinion on the subject.

But it's nothing new with you.

kland,

Your post does nothing to contribute to the conversation here.

Regarding "emotional opinions," if that's what you are opposed to...

What is wrong with an "emotional opinion?"

The way I see it, we should all have some "emotional opinions." Think of Calvary. If that doesn't bring some "emotional opinions" to mind, one should stop to consider his or her Christian experience.

Emotions are not the problem. The problem is when people follow their emotions over the plain truth, facts, or logic of something. Emotions have a tendency to cause myopia, and can bring us to erroneous decisions.

As the Bible would put it "Be ye angry and sin not." Notice it does not say "Do not be angry." The anger of itself may not be a sin. But the anger will tend to short-circuit the brain into erroneous/sinful actions if one is not carefully restrained. We must recognize our emotions and work carefully with them. It is not wise to ignore emotions, to write them off as completely invalid, nor to follow them implicitly.

Jesus spoke at times with tears in His voice. Why? Why did He not maintain a purely logical and rational approach? Why did He let people see His emotions? Did His emotions tell them He was speaking incorrectly?

Speaking of emotions, your post seems calculated to speak to the emotions of Rick and myself. You seem to have addressed emotions rather than substance. If you are opposing emotions, doesn't this seem a little hypocritical?

People tend to use emotions when they have nothing of real substance to say. If you had had something more factual by which you could address the facts I had presented, I think you would have brought that here instead. Am I right?

Now, let's get back to the topic.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Facts are not emotional opinions. Substituting for such is incorrect. You left the facts by giving your opinion of intent with nothing to address any facts.

I still am waiting to see you bring something to the table on the topic of this thread.

Views might differ depending on from which summit the matter is seen.

It is difficult to discover mutual approaches with those whose view cannot be elevated from a deep valley of understanding.



The days are shorter in a valley than at the summit, so you get less light in the valley.

WHO WAS THAT?   King James Version NIV Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?” Matthew 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.” Matthew 15:30 And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them: Great crowds came to him, bringing the lame, the blind, the crippled, the mute and many others, and laid them at his feet; and he healed them. Matthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. He replied, “Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” Matthew 17:22 And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: When they came together in Galilee, he said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. Matthew 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, He called a little child and had him stand among them. Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” Mark 5:13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned. Mark 7:27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. “First let the children eat all they want,” he told her, “for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs.” Mark 11:14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it. Mark 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and will deceive many. Mark 14:18 And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me. While they were reclining at the table eating, he said, “I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me–one who is eating with me.” Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. So he replied to the messengers, “Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor. Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. John 4:16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.” John 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.” John 4:46 So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum. Once more he visited Cana in Galilee, where he had turned the water into wine. And there was a certain royal official whose son lay sick at Capernaum. John 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.” John 8:20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come. He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come. John 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. John 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, John 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. “Woman,” he said, “why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?” Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.” John 21:5 Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No. He called out to them, “Friends, haven't you any fish?” “No,” they answered. Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.” Acts 7:45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David; Having received the tabernacle, our fathers under Joshua brought it with them when they took the land from the nations God drove out before them. It remained in the land until the time of David, Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. ENTIRE VERSE OMITTED IN NIV Acts 9:29 And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him. He talked and debated with the Grecian Jews, but they tried to kill him. Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. Romans 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. ENTIRE VERSE OMITTED IN NIV 1 Corinthians 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make use of my rights in preaching it. Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. Galatians 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir. Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. Ephesians 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, For this reason I kneel before the Father, Ephesians 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. and to know this love that surpasses knowledge–that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. Philippians 1:16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. I can do everything through him who gives me strength. 1 Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle–I am telling the truth, I am not lying–and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles. Hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Philippians 4:13 in the "NIV" as shown above makes me want to vomit. Of all verses in the Bible to exclude Christ's name in....I mean, it makes it sound as if any man might give someone strength. Any "him" will do.

Barf already!

"As the dog returns to his vomit...." But I won't return to using the NIV ever. I can only do what I can to clean up the mess. "Damage control," some would say.

Then there's the verse that substitutes "Joshua" for "Jesus." Then there's the one that says "Many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and will deceive many." Who? Who is "he?" I'm a "he," as it happens. I know many "hes." Which one? When the Bible says "name" it means "name." "He" is not a name!

I'm about ready to lose my lunch again.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.