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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: APL]
#157330
10/18/13 06:18 PM
10/18/13 06:18 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
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Posts: 6,512
Midland
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Green, you were complaining about "Joshua," vs. "Jesus", and now you are talking about different languages and different names for Jesus and different spellings, and .... and you seem to have gone around in a circle without having said anything.
Which comes back to, are you are talking about manuscripts or English?
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: kland]
#157449
10/22/13 04:15 AM
10/22/13 04:15 AM
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SDA
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kland,
Your question seems only to create confusion of something that is crystal clear. The word "Jesus" (Greek) that was given to Christ was never used in the Old Testament (Hebrew) and the word "Joshua" (Hebrew) was never used in the New Testament (Greek). So am I talking about manuscripts or English? Neither, or both, depending upon your perspective. Some names from the Old Testament are repeated in the New. Joshua doesn't happen to be one of them. Neither is "Caleb" ever mentioned in the New Testament. The last mention of him in the Bible is in 1 Chronicles 6.
What I'm talking about is translational "distinctives" in the modern versions which are without excuse (support).
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157454
10/22/13 02:47 PM
10/22/13 02:47 PM
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And you are entirely entitled to your opinion. Obviously, the majority has another opinion.
Can you substantiate that Heb 4:8, which you listed, should be Jesus instead of Joshua?
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day. (ASV)
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: kland]
#157474
10/23/13 05:03 AM
10/23/13 05:03 AM
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SDA
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Mrs. White speaks of that time and focuses on Jesus in place of Joshua. More than fourteen centuries before Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the children of Israel gathered in the fair vale of Shechem, and from the mountains on either side the voices of the priests were heard proclaiming the blessings and the curses--"a blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God: . . . and a curse, if ye will not obey." Deuteronomy 11:27, 28. And thus the mountain from which the words of benediction were spoken came to be known as the mount of blessing. But it was not upon Gerizim that the words were spoken which have come as a benediction to a sinning and sorrowing world. Israel fell short of the high ideal which had been set before her. Another than Joshua must guide His people to the true rest of faith. No longer is Gerizim known as the mount of the Beatitudes, but that unnamed mountain beside the Lake of Gennesaret, where Jesus spoke the words of blessing to His disciples and the multitude. {MB 1.1} It looks to me like she erases this question eloquently. It was not Joshua, but Jesus, who gives His people rest. The context of the Bible passage does not seem to admit any other than Christ. Can you explain what it would mean otherwise? How can Joshua give them rest? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157475
10/23/13 05:08 AM
10/23/13 05:08 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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kland,
The real question here is: What is the Greek word that the NIV translated "Joshua" from in the Hebrews text?
Was it the same word translated "Jesus" elsewhere? If so, why are the translators at liberty to change the name arbitrarily in Hebrews?
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: kland]
#157482
10/23/13 02:55 PM
10/23/13 02:55 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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And which "Jesus" is Hebrews 4:8 speaking about Green???
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157485
10/23/13 04:04 PM
10/23/13 04:04 PM
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SDA
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Actually, the real question should be, how is Joshua translated in Greek? More than fourteen centuries before Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the children of Israel gathered in the fair vale of Shechem, and from the mountains on either side the voices of the priests were heard proclaiming the blessings and the curses--"a blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God: . . . and a curse, if ye will not obey." Deuteronomy 11:27, 28. And thus the mountain from which the words of benediction were spoken came to be known as the mount of blessing. But it was not upon Gerizim that the words were spoken which have come as a benediction to a sinning and sorrowing world. Israel fell short of the high ideal which had been set before her. Another than Joshua must guide His people to the true rest of faith. No longer is Gerizim known as the mount of the Beatitudes, but that unnamed mountain beside the Lake of Gennesaret, where Jesus spoke the words of blessing to His disciples and the multitude. {MB 1.1} It looks to me like she erases this question eloquently. It was not Joshua, but Jesus, who gives His people rest. The context of the Bible passage does not seem to admit any other than Christ. Can you explain what it would mean otherwise? How can Joshua give them rest? Very good point! Joshua did NOT give them rest, "but Jesus, who gives His people rest". That's why she said, "Another than Joshua must guide His people to the true rest of faith." Another than Joshua. Joshua had NOT given them rest. Jesus will give them rest. What does the text say? Heb 4:8 (ASV) For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day. Meaning, Joshua had NOT given them rest. Surely you don't mean Jesus had NOT given them rest, do you?
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: kland]
#157486
10/23/13 04:22 PM
10/23/13 04:22 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
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"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: Johann]
#157488
10/23/13 05:23 PM
10/23/13 05:23 PM
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SDA
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kland - you make my point!
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it matter?
[Re: APL]
#157500
10/24/13 02:18 AM
10/24/13 02:18 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
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And which "Jesus" is Hebrews 4:8 speaking about Green??? That same one that is spoken about in Acts 4:12. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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