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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157387
10/20/13 03:05 AM
10/20/13 03:05 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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APL,
The Lamb will make war.
"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them; for he is Lord of lords and King of kings; and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."
I guess He's a mass murderer according to your definition. Should He just lay downs His arms and be conquered?
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157392
10/20/13 03:34 AM
10/20/13 03:34 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
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Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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APL,
The Lamb will make war.
"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them; for he is Lord of lords and King of kings; and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."
I guess He's a mass murderer according to your definition. Should He just lay downs His arms and be conquered? Does it say the Lamb will make war? Is this how you understand inspiration, green? ¿ Twister Blessings, Green Cochoa. [/quote]
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Johann]
#157393
10/20/13 03:37 AM
10/20/13 03:37 AM
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SDA
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In English we have a saying, "it takes two to tango." How can you have a "war" without a battle or a fight? How can one "conquer" in a war without a fight?
Do you believe, Johann, that we are NOT in a "Great Controversy?" If so, what is the Universe now experiencing?
Pastors should know these things. Have you read the "Great Controversy?"
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157394
10/20/13 03:49 AM
10/20/13 03:49 AM
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SDA
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Posts: 7,003
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Johann is the one who is twisting the truth here. We know from the Bible and from Mrs. White BOTH that God (and His servants) will make war upon His enemies. From Mrs. White: Christ has pledged Himself to engage in conflict with the prince of darkness, and Christ's soldiers, the chosen of God, war against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. {BEcho, September 3, 1900 par. 3} From the Bible: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Revelation 12:7-9) Again, it takes two opponents to have a war. If one side does not fight, instead of a war it would be either a surrender or a massacre. But God will not surrender, nor be massacred!Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157395
10/20/13 04:04 AM
10/20/13 04:04 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
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Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Scripture tells us how to use burning coals in this fight to protect ourselves.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Johann]
#157396
10/20/13 04:08 AM
10/20/13 04:08 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
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In the text you used it says that the Lamb will overcome. It does not say he will fight.
You are using wordly definitions to define inspiration.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Johann]
#157397
10/20/13 04:19 AM
10/20/13 04:19 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
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In the text you used it says that the Lamb will overcome. It does not say he will fight.
You are using wordly definitions to define inspiration. Really? "Michael and his angels fought against the dragon." How big is the difference in your mind between "fight" and "fought?" If God did it once, was it wrong the first time and therefore He won't do it again? No, that can't be, for if it was wrong the first time, it would mean God is a sinner already. Let's just stick to the Bible, not the words of Johann. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Johann]
#157398
10/20/13 04:24 AM
10/20/13 04:24 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God's government; He desires only the service of love; and love cannot be commanded; it cannot be won by force or authority. Only by love is love awakened. To know God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to the character of Satan. This work only one Being in all the universe could do. Only He who knew the height and depth of the love of God could make it known. Upon the world's dark night the Sun of Righteousness must rise, "with healing in His wings." Malachi 4:2. {DA 22.1} God could have destroyed Satan and his sympathizers as easily as one can cast a pebble to the earth; but He did not do this. Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's principles are not of this order. His authority rests upon goodness, mercy, and love; and the presentation of these principles is the means to be used. God's government is moral, and truth and love are to be the prevailing power. {DA 759.1} Earthly war as waged by the kingdoms of this earth is paganism, as our forefathers have so clearly stated. 2 Corinthians 10:3-5 TCW 3 Though we are living in this world, we don’t use the worldly methods they do. 4 The weapons we use in our fight for right are not the weapons of the world. Our weapons come from God, against whom nothing can stand. 5 We destroy all false arguments and every device used by men against the knowledge of God and capture every proud thought to bring it into obedience to Jesus Christ. Earthly governments prevail by physical force; they maintain their dominion by war; but the founder of the new kingdom is the Prince of Peace. The Holy Spirit represents worldly kingdoms under the symbol of fierce beasts of prey; but Christ is "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. In His plan of government there is no employment of brute force to compel the conscience. The Jews looked for the kingdom of God to be established in the same way as the kingdoms of the world. To promote righteousness they resorted to external measures. They devised methods and plans. But Christ implants a principle. By implanting truth and righteousness, He counterworks error and sin. {COL 77.1} The Jews looked for God's kingdom to be established using worldly methods. Why do we repeat their error today?????
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157399
10/20/13 04:28 AM
10/20/13 04:28 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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Wordly people will interpret the Bible using worldly terms.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157400
10/20/13 04:30 AM
10/20/13 04:30 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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In the text you used it says that the Lamb will overcome. It does not say he will fight.
You are using wordly definitions to define inspiration. Really? "Michael and his angels fought against the dragon." How big is the difference in your mind between "fight" and "fought?" If God did it once, was it wrong the first time and therefore He won't do it again? No, that can't be, for if it was wrong the first time, it would mean God is a sinner already. Let's just stick to the Bible, not the words of Johann. Blessings, Green Cochoa. Was anyone killed in the war talked about in Revelation 12:7??? Have you looked at the original greek word translated "war"? It is strong's number: G4171, polēmos. Have you heard of the English word polemic? If God wanted to quell the dispute by force, it would have happened in the blink of an eye, as simply as casting a pebble to the earth. God can not be defeated by force. Good luck trying!
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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