God hasn't commanded it.

If God commands it, would you disobey like Saul did? Or would you obey like Abraham?

Fortunately, I have God's word and His commands, and I have the best evidence of what God is like and what He wants in Jesus Christ.

I'm told fever is a symptom of some diseases.


No, that's just a misunderstanding on your part.

APL, please address the posts I wrote you. Please be forthcoming. I have no idea what you believe. Do not expect me to read between the lines. State your position plainly (especially in response to my posts and questions. Thank you.

asygo - is it ok in your mind to kill in self-defense?

Do you think Samuel was hallucinating?

And here we arrive: You will choose whether or not to obey God's commands based on your understanding of what you think He really meant. Agag would have been perfectly safe with you.

I can imagine your conversation with Samuel:
Yes, I know He said to kill them. But what He meant was to NOT kill them. Sam, you're focused too much on what God has revealed of Himself these past thousands of years. In a few hundred years, He will come in the flesh and show us that He's totally different from what He has been so far. He's just using reverse psychology on us now, because we are so messed up. He knows we are disobedient, so he told us to kill so that we won't kill, which is what He really wants to happen. So really, I'm doing God's will by NOT doing what He commanded. But please don't bring up how well this method worked for Eve.

No. Unless if God commands it.

Quote = EJ Waggoner. (Note to green EJW looks a lot like EGW - don't confuse them).Interesting that our Adventist forefathers understood the meaning of the commandment to not kill. War is heathenism. Are we not to come out of Babylon?

APL, it feels like you are avoiding my posts. Perhaps you are too busy to respond? I would appreciate it if you would state your position plainly. Asking questions hoping my answers will help me decipher what you believe isn't working for me. I need you to state your position plainly. Quoting the Bible and the SOP doesn't help me understand your position. I read them and arrive at different conclusions. Also, quoting EJW isn't constructive. I don't trust his views. Nor do I believe he is inspired.

1. It sounds like you believe Jesus compromised truth to accommodate the evil desires of sinners and commanded them to execute capital punishment and to wage war.

2. It sounds like you believe Jesus is guiltless even though He commanded sinners to execute capital punishment and to wage war.

3. It sounds like you believe Jesus has never killed sinners, that disease, death, and devastation is the result of Jesus either 1) withdrawing His protection and permitting nature to wreak havoc, 2) permitting evil men to wreak havoc, or 3) permitting evil angels to wreak havoc.

4. It sounds like you believe any inspired passage that describes Jesus or holy angels causing disease, death, or devastation must be interpreted to mean nature, evil men, or evil angels caused it.

MM - do you trust EGW's writings? If so, then how do you reconcile your view that killing of humans, of any kind is ever justified? EGW writes, "The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God's government" Is that not clear? From the Bible, were the children of Israel ever supposed to fight a war? Think of Jacob and Laban then Esau; the people leaving Egypt. Read 2 Chronicles 20 as a few examples. But what did the people do repeatedly? They rejected the rule of God and followed after the world. They eventually demanded a king. Did God want them to have a king? Asking for a king was a rejection of God! 1 Samuel 8:7. The people wanted their own rule. Did God abandon them? No, He still worked with them and gave them rules which were not His ideal, but would be necessary under the rule they had chosen, which again was a rejection of God. Waging war was not in God's plan. It was what the people demanded.

You believe that God causes sickness and disease. EGW says NO! "Sickness, suffering, and death are work of an antagonistic power." So unless you believe God is also evil, then sickness and disease does not come from God, ever, full stop. "Satan is the destroyer; God is the restorer." . When we make God the destroyer, we are equating Him with satan, the adversary. There are only 2 ways. God is not both.

War is murder. I understand you have been associated with the military, and it may be hard to believe that you supported murder. But that is what it is. Here is a parable:

Two men own adjoining fields, but there is a dispute as to the boundary line. The land is valuable, and that portion through which the dividing fence runs is the most valuable of all. A claims that there was a mistake in the survey, and that the fence ought to be moved ten yards in order to give him the land that belongs to him. But B insists that he has no more land than belongs to him, but that, on the contrary, a portion of what A claims really belongs to him, at any rate he will not yield an inch.

Each is determined to have his "rights." Besides the lust of the flesh, the pride of life comes in, and each man feels that it would be wholly inconsistent with his dignity to yield to the other. Moreover threats and insulting words have been used, such as "no man of proper spirit could be expected to stand." Each feels himself not only wronged, but abused, and each demands from the other an apology and reparation. But each one feels that his "honour" as well as his property is at stake, and is determined not to yield.

So the feud grows. From hard words the men come to blows. Finally each deliberately resolves to take the other's life. Then the disputed boundary will not only be settled, but the survivor can take as much more of the other's property as he wishes.

Accordingly they arm themselves with knives or guns, and meet and begin stabbing or shooting, until one of them is dead. Then what follows:-Why, the man who kills the other is called a murderer, and is hanged, denounced by all the neighbourhood.

Suppose now that instead of two farms we have two countries, perhaps the United States and Iraq concerning the invasion of Kuwait; instead of a few roods of land we have some thousands of square miles; and instead of two men involved, we have hundreds of thousands. There is a dispute as to the boundary line, Kuwait. Each nation feels that its rights are threatened; and, besides, undiplomatic language has been used, which must be resented. The "national honour" will not allow any concessions on either side. So armed bodies of men meet and shoot at each other. Instead of one man, thousands are killed. The conquerors take the disputed territory, and as much more as they wish, and the victorious army marches home. How are they regarded? Are they called murderers?-Oh, no; they are greeted with shouts and songs, and are lauded as patriots.

Where is the difference in the two cases?-It is only in the greater number of men killed in the second case. Therefore we must conclude that the sole difference between war and murder is in the extent of the interests and the number of people involved. If only one man is killed, it is murder. If one man kills four or five men, that is an aggravated case of murder. But if thousands fight, and hundreds are killed, that is "glorious war," although precisely the same passions lead to each result. The question is, Does God regard it as less sinful to kill a thousand men than to kill one? His Word answers: "Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished." Pro_11:21.

Note - it does not take much to be a murderer. Jesus said, Matthew 5:21-22 RV Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire. (NOTE - When EGW quoted this verse in MB 55, she left out the "without a cause found in the KJV!!) So whether you are a murderer, and there are many, or an adulterer, and there are many, these are symptoms of the disease sin. I certainly can not judge who will be saved or who will not. Man looks on the outward appearance, God looks on the heart. 1 Samuel 16:7. More importantly, where sin abounds, grace abounds more. Romans 5:20. And what is Grace? God's knowledge to fix the problem! Titus 3:5-7 and Isaiah 53:11.

Matthew 11:29-30 RV Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.