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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: kland]
#157468
10/22/13 09:51 PM
10/22/13 09:51 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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APL, if you firmly believed that God told you to kill me,
would you? That was the struggle Abraham had, right? Satan was at hand to suggest that he must be deceived, for the divine law commands, "Thou shalt not kill," and God would not require what He had once forbidden. Going outside his tent, Abraham looked up to the calm brightness of the unclouded heavens, and recalled the promise made nearly fifty years before, that his seed should be innumerable as the stars. If this promise was to be fulfilled through Isaac, how could he be put to death? Abraham was tempted to believe that he might be under a delusion. {PP 148.3} Does God speak to us today? ABSOLUTELY. He speaks to us by His WORD. In that WORD, we know what God requires. Satan attempted to deceive Christ by twisting the word. Abraham did not have the written word. We do.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157471
10/23/13 12:49 AM
10/23/13 12:49 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Posts: 5,636
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So today's "WORD" is more reliable than the "Thou shalt not kill" that Abraham had? They seem very similar to me, using the NKJV.
BTW, I noticed the non-answer.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: asygo]
#157473
10/23/13 04:33 AM
10/23/13 04:33 AM
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So today's "WORD" is more reliable than the "Thou shalt not kill" that Abraham had? They seem very similar to me, using the NKJV.
BTW, I noticed the non-answer. Ah, but asygo - we have the testimony of Abraham and even more importanly, we have the testimony of Jesus!
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157478
10/23/13 06:59 AM
10/23/13 06:59 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
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Iceland
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It is amazing to observe how certain individuals only accept that part of revelation which seems to support their particular sectarian views.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157483
10/23/13 03:07 PM
10/23/13 03:07 PM
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Active Member 2023
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So today's "WORD" is more reliable than the "Thou shalt not kill" that Abraham had? They seem very similar to me, using the NKJV.
BTW, I noticed the non-answer. Ah, but asygo - we have the testimony of Abraham and even more importanly, we have the testimony of Jesus! Was it or was it not Jesus who was talking to Abraham? If it was, did His testimony change? Was Abraham's obedience an example of faith or deluded warmongering?
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157484
10/23/13 04:03 PM
10/23/13 04:03 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,509
Midland
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APL, if you firmly believed that God told you to kill me,
would you? That was the struggle Abraham had, right? Satan was at hand to suggest that he must be deceived, for the divine law commands, "Thou shalt not kill," and God would not require what He had once forbidden. Going outside his tent, Abraham looked up to the calm brightness of the unclouded heavens, and recalled the promise made nearly fifty years before, that his seed should be innumerable as the stars. If this promise was to be fulfilled through Isaac, how could he be put to death? Abraham was tempted to believe that he might be under a delusion. {PP 148.3} Does God speak to us today? ABSOLUTELY. He speaks to us by His WORD. In that WORD, we know what God requires. Satan attempted to deceive Christ by twisting the word. Abraham did not have the written word. We do. Not an expected answer. I'm trying to find out if I met you down a dark alley, should I be scared / prepared to die if you believed God told you to kill me?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: kland]
#157492
10/23/13 06:05 PM
10/23/13 06:05 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Not an expected answer. I'm trying to find out if I met you down a dark alley, should I be scared / prepared to die if you believed God told you to kill me? IF I believed that God wanted me to kill you, then a dark alley would not save you!!! You do not need to worry... Two question back to you - WOULD God make such a demand today? Why do we have records of God commanding killing in the past?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157493
10/23/13 07:37 PM
10/23/13 07:37 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
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Has God commanded any of your friends to kill someone in recent years?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: kland]
#157538
10/24/13 04:19 PM
10/24/13 04:19 PM
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SDA
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Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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M: Soldiers in battle are not guilty of murder. Judges are not guilty of murder when a criminal is executed.
K: Green has been unable to present a distinction between murder and killing. Can you? The laws of most governments make a distinction. Does God's law? The only thing I would add to APL's response which I agree with would be to ask why does our church recommend conscientious objector for the military? A single angel destroyed all the first-born of the Egyptians and filled the land with mourning. When David offended against God by numbering the people, one angel caused that terrible destruction by which his sin was punished. The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits. There are forces now ready, and only waiting the divine permission, to spread desolation everywhere. {GC 614.2} What is meant by "the same destructive power"? Not sure what that has to do with making a distinction between murder and killing. Can you distinguish the difference? Green seems to be either unable or unwilling. To quiet the claims of my being "either unable or unwilling" to demonstrate the distinction between killing and murder, I have made some posts in a new thread specific to that topic. For the moment, I'm locking it for reference only, and would prefer to discuss the material presented there here. This is the primary thread that it has to deal with, and I am loathe to see my hard efforts buried so deep I cannot find them again. So, feel free to browse the materials HERE, then return here to comment upon them. NOTE: I sacrificed some of my precious time this week to post this material. I did not have sufficient to post all that I wish, so I may post more later as I have time to put it together. For now, this is a start. I hope you appreciate it. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157543
10/24/13 06:18 PM
10/24/13 06:18 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
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Does Green misunderstands Romans 13? David's power had been given him by God, but to be exercised only in harmony with the divine law. When he commanded that which was contrary to God's law, it became sin to obey. "The powers that be are ordained of God" (Romans 13:1), but we are not to obey them contrary to God's law. The apostle Paul, writing to the Corinthians, sets forth the principle by which we should be governed. He says, "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." 1 Corinthians 11:1. {PP 719.3} When David, the power ordained by God commanded the death of Uriah, was he to be obeyed without question? NO. While we are to respect the worldly powers, we are not to make the mistake that these powers represent God's will without question.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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