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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157553
10/25/13 02:07 AM
10/25/13 02:07 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,635
California, USA
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But then, you also question God's own direct command.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157554
10/25/13 02:15 AM
10/25/13 02:15 AM
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Does Green misunderstands Romans 13? David's power had been given him by God, but to be exercised only in harmony with the divine law. When he commanded that which was contrary to God's law, it became sin to obey. "The powers that be are ordained of God" (Romans 13:1), but we are not to obey them contrary to God's law. The apostle Paul, writing to the Corinthians, sets forth the principle by which we should be governed. He says, "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." 1 Corinthians 11:1. {PP 719.3} When David, the power ordained by God commanded the death of Uriah, was he to be obeyed without question? NO. While we are to respect the worldly powers, we are not to make the mistake that these powers represent God's will without question. I think you misread what I posted, or you missed the point entirely. The point I was bringing out is that the system of "avengement" now belongs to the authorities, as opposed to the individual. Uriah's case, of course, was not one of avengement. It was simply a murder to conceal a sin. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#157555
10/25/13 04:18 AM
10/25/13 04:18 AM
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Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Does Green misunderstands Romans 13? David's power had been given him by God, but to be exercised only in harmony with the divine law. When he commanded that which was contrary to God's law, it became sin to obey. "The powers that be are ordained of God" (Romans 13:1), but we are not to obey them contrary to God's law. The apostle Paul, writing to the Corinthians, sets forth the principle by which we should be governed. He says, "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." 1 Corinthians 11:1. {PP 719.3} When David, the power ordained by God commanded the death of Uriah, was he to be obeyed without question? NO. While we are to respect the worldly powers, we are not to make the mistake that these powers represent God's will without question. I think you misread what I posted, or you missed the point entirely. The point I was bringing out is that the system of "avengement" now belongs to the authorities, as opposed to the individual. Uriah's case, of course, was not one of avengement. It was simply a murder to conceal a sin. Blessings, Green Cochoa. I see - then the Roman government that included crucifixions was condoned by God! And in this day and age, abortion is OK as it is condoned and regulated by the state. And prostitution is OK as it is condoned by the government ordained by God. And the sale of liquor is perfectly legal, regulated by the government ordained by God. Good News - God will get the sinner!
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157556
10/25/13 04:43 AM
10/25/13 04:43 AM
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SDA
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Unlock the other thread Green - - Your mis-statements would addressed there.
Example, "This was the arrangement appointed for the Israelites in Canaan, under God's Theocracy." Really? The Israelites were under a theocracy of God? Have you not read the Bible?
Exodus 6:7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and you shall know that I am the LORD your God, which brings you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.
Exodus 19:5-6 Now therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure to me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And you shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.
Exodus 20:18-20 And all the people saw the thunder, and the lightning, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 19 And they said to Moses, Speak you with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. 20 And Moses said to the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that you sin not.
The People rejected direct communication with God. They did not want a direct theocracy. Moses knew they had nothing to fear of God, but they rejected Him. And they did again when they asked for a king.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157570
10/25/13 11:52 PM
10/25/13 11:52 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
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Theocracy Why did God permit the children of Israel to be bitten by serpents in the wilderness?--It was because of their wicked unbelief and continual rebellion, their perversity and murmuring. They did not stop to think how much God was saving them from, how many evils He was holding in check. He had forbidden the poisonous serpents to touch them. He had restrained the wild beasts of the forest. He had saved His people from a thousand dangers. He sent them test and trial, to see whether they had learned the lesson of submission, and were prepared to receive the rich blessings He had in store for them. Thus He sought to correct their selfishness, that they might take their place in His divine theocracy as a representative people. It was His purpose that they should reveal His character and bear a living testimony to the world that God honors those who honor Him. He desired them to be a pure, holy, intelligent people, who could be used as light-bearers to the world. But instead of remembering that the Angel of the Lord was constantly guiding and protecting them, the children of Israel lost sight of God's merciful and wonderful dealing, and magnified the trials sent to prove them. God could not work with a people who continually lost sight of their advantages, and dishonored Him by unbelief. Mrs. E. G. White. {ST, October 25, 1899 par. 10} The people continually rejected God and His rule. God worked with them. He tried to correct their selfishness to bring them under His divine rule, theocracy. But instead, what did the people do? What did God do? Did God "send" the fiery serpents? NO. God withdrew His protection. Where the people under God theocracy? They continually rejected it! God in response continually met the people where they were. We today are called to be under God's theocracy. Non-conformity to the central body is deemed rebellion. It was a good thing that there were 7000 did not bow down to Baal. David at the end of his life tried to get the people to be subject to God's Theocracy, 1 Chronicles 28:9. We know how that worked out under Solomon, and the state of affairs after him.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157578
10/26/13 07:20 PM
10/26/13 07:20 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
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Iceland
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The whole point is knowing God and His purpose with us. A friend sent me greetings with MLT 160. We are urged to read the Bible and through it find peace and the atmosphere of heaven among us. It is of such great importance to know God as bringing us heaven now rather than having our minds filled with an image of God as an avenger.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Johann]
#157580
10/27/13 06:22 AM
10/27/13 06:22 AM
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Was this written for our benefit: We are not to regard God as waiting to punish the sinner for his sin. The sinner brings punishment upon himself. His own actions start a train of circumstances that bring the sure results. Every act of transgression reacts upon the sinner, works in him a change of character, and makes it more easy for him to transgress again. By choosing to sin, men separate themselves from God, cut themselves off from the channel of blessing, and the sure result is ruin and death. {FLB 84.7}
Last edited by Johann; 10/27/13 06:26 AM.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Johann]
#157581
10/27/13 06:51 AM
10/27/13 06:51 AM
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SDA
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I've used that quote, different reference but same quote. And the reply we get back? asygo: "Just because God is not sitting there waiting to punish sinners doesn't mean he won't. All good fathers know that."
So as some say, God is not waiting to punish, but he sure will!!!
Sad.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157582
10/27/13 07:03 AM
10/27/13 07:03 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Iceland
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Rejecting certain parts of the admonition given us by God is what the archdeceiver has been attempting us to do right from the beginning.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Johann]
#157586
10/27/13 07:49 AM
10/27/13 07:49 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
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3000+ Member
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Right from my early chilhood my mother read to me the clear testimonies of how Lucifer attempted to paint the picture of the Father as one eager to punish. She also read to me how Satan tries to present God like this to members of the church as the final events are approaching.
So we should not be surprised this is happening just before our eyes today. I have been expecting this for the past 50 years.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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