Green, just because you happen to ignore completely some very strong statements of Ellen White and refuse stubbornly to take her words to heart and see the wonderfully balanced view of God the Holy Spirit charged her to present, does not mean that others need to follow you in your evil ways in rejecting the Spirit of Prophecy as a gift to the remnant church.

You act as if God was just joking when He sent some of His messages to the church.

IF you read the book The Great Controversy as a WHOLE, the answer to of how God "punishes" is given early in the book. It is this part that Green either does not understand or chooses to ignore, making sin not the problem, but God. He changes, Matthew 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.", to Green 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from what He will do to you if you do not love Him." Green does not understand or worse, chooses to ignore this statement by Ellen in GC:

The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. Says the prophet: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; Hosea 14:1. Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work. By stubborn rejection of divine love and mercy, the Jews had caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them, and Satan was permitted to rule them according to his will. The horrible cruelties enacted in the destruction of Jerusalem are a demonstration of Satan's vindictive power over those who yield to his control. {GC 35.3}

We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy and long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power of the evil one. But when men pass the limits of divine forbearance, that restraint is removed. God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of light rejected, every warning despised or unheeded, every passion indulged, every transgression of the law of God, is a seed sown which yields its unfailing harvest. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan. The destruction of Jerusalem is a fearful and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy. Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. {GC 36.1}

The Saviour's prophecy concerning the visitation of judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment, of which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon His law. Dark are the records of human misery that earth has witnessed during its long centuries of crime. The heart sickens, and the mind grows faint in contemplation. Terrible have been the results of rejecting the authority of Heaven. But a scene yet darker is presented in the revelations of the future. The records of the past,--the long procession of tumults, conflicts, and revolutions, the "battle of the warrior . . . with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood" (Isaiah 9:5),--what are these, in contrast with the terrors of that day when the restraining Spirit of God shall be wholly withdrawn from the wicked, no longer to hold in check the outburst of human passion and satanic wrath! The world will then behold, as never before, the results of Satan's rule. {GC 36.2}

EGW in Steps to Christ:
God has bound our hearts to Him by unnumbered tokens in heaven and in earth. Through the things of nature, and the deepest and tenderest earthly ties that human hearts can know, He has sought to reveal Himself to us. Yet these but imperfectly represent His love. Though all these evidences have been given, the enemy of good blinded the minds of men, so that they looked upon God with fear; they thought of Him as severe and unforgiving. Satan led men to conceive of God as a being whose chief attribute is stern justice,--one who is a severe judge, a harsh, exacting creditor. He pictured the Creator as a being who is watching with jealous eye to discern the errors and mistakes of men, that He may visit judgments upon them. It was to remove this dark shadow, by revealing to the world the infinite love of God, that Jesus came to live among men. {SC 10.3}

EGW:
All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. {8T 286.1}

This statement both asygo and green have claimed to have been better represented by the view of God in the Old Testament!!! That Christ's life on this earth as a human did not clearly reveal the character of God!!! Yet Christ's own statement contracticts their view and supports EGW's. John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Confirmed by the next paragraph in Steps to Christ from the one quoted above:
The Son of God came from heaven to make manifest the Father. "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him." John 1:18. "Neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him." Matthew 11:27. When one of the disciples made the request, "Show us the Father," Jesus answered, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" John 14:8, 9. {SC 11.1}

EGW:
The very attributes that belonged to the character of Satan, the evil one represented as belonging to the character of God. Jesus came to teach men of the Father, to correctly represent him before the fallen children of earth. Angels could not fully portray the character of God, but Christ, who was a living impersonation of God, could not fail to accomplish the work. The only way in which he could set and keep men right was to make himself visible and familiar to their eyes. That men might have salvation he came directly to man, and became a partaker of his nature. {ST, January 20, 1890 par. 6}

Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. In Christ was arrayed before men the paternal grace and the matchless perfections of the Father. In his prayer just before his crucifixion, he declared, "I have manifested thy name." "I have glorified thee on the earth; I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do." When the object of his mission was attained,--the revelation of God to the world,--the Son of God announced that his work was accomplished, and that the character of the Father was made manifest to men. {ST, January 20, 1890 par. 9}

I'm not the one ignoring Mrs. White. I accept her writings fully.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

APL,

GC 35.3, 36.1, 36.2 specifically reference points in the past: God's dealings with ancient Israel, and with Jerusalem. Mrs. White says all past judgments of God were mixed with mercy and that we cannot even imagine what it will be like in the day ahead when this is no longer the case. It is true that we bring upon ourselves a great deal by our sins, and certainly the story of the Jews bears this out.

All of your other statements that you quoted from Mrs. White are also true. God has revealed everything to us through Jesus. Jesus has always been the liaison between God and Man. He is the Word, the Creator, the Redeemer, and the Judge in the final judgment of sinners. Everything we could know of God has been and will be through Jesus. Your error is in limiting Jesus' infinite life to 33 short years. Who spoke to Saul on his road to Damascus? Could Saul not have had any "revelation" of God's character through this experience because Jesus had already died and gone to Heaven?

Misinterpretations abound. I covet the truth, in all of its fullness. A partial truth is akin to a lie when a fuller truth could be obtained that would make a world of difference to the understanding.

Who will say God will not do what He has said He would do? Not me. I believe Him.



True Christians must have strong courage. Those who encourage others in a course of evil will be punished by God.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Nothing would bring me greater joy on this forum than the knowledge that you, Grean Cochoa, would accept the Spirit of Prophecy in your own life and experience. Just brandishing some select quotations while ignoring others give no such evidence.

Your views are so similar to those of my own father. When his own body was tearing to pieses by cancer his former views gave him no relief. He could not see then that his own ailments were a punishment from God. Then he accepted what his wife had read inthe books by Ellen White and he had to understand those delightfully choice quotations in the light of what else came from the Spirit of Prophecy.

Pray for guidance

Don't perish in those partial truths where you ignore so much, Green

I would love to see that in what you write, Green. It hasn't been too convincing yet.

Which truth have I rejected? I am not the one here rejecting truth. I accept all the truths that have been made so prominent here, including that God permits punishments to come upon people as a result of their own sins, and more, for God will also punish the wicked Himself. This is the truth that many here reject. You have rejected this. Shall I then trust that your wisdom is to be accepted as faithful and true on this subject?

I will ever cherish the truths of the scriptures above the opinions of men.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Johann,

I see you and your friends here as being, ignorantly I presume, for you all seem so sincere in your beliefs, used by Satan to push the balance of truth in the wrong direction. In agitating the matter as you do, the countering points made by myself and others here appear to be on the opposite side and equally unbalanced. I would not quote the statements which are so much on the other side if there were not such imbalance in what has been presented. However, you and those of your belief have then pointed to the statements I have quoted and painted them as imbalanced.

Perhaps they are. But they are no more so than your statements, which I happen to also accept. You, however, have not ever accepted the sharper statements to the other side of what you wish to believe. In your inmost soul, do you believe those statements? Do you accept them? Do you sense your need of greater balance here?

I accept all of Mrs. White's statements, but do you?

Do you, Johann, accept THIS statement?



And this one which immediately follows it?


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Yes Green, I accept all of those statements, as I have said before. I read them and accept them in the light of what God also has revealed for us to know, and I wish you would do the same.

Why should I reject some of what God has revealed, just because Green doesn't like it? That would not be safe, no matter what your claims are.

Get down from your high horse, Green and submit your pride to the Lord. He cares for you and wants to use your knowledge in His service. Accept all that He has revealed to His people in these last days before the end comes. Much is at stake.