Interesting recent post:
http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=157728#Post157728

I wasn't giving a review, and no I couldn't give a review for a book I don't have and don't have access to.

I can give a legitimate answer as to my opinion of what I saw, which was called "Forks Over Knives."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Even worse:

APL: And this exposure has made them healthier, right? Hm - read, "The China Study".

Green: I have watched a DVD of the China Study.
Green: I can give a legitimate answer as to my opinion of what I saw, which was called "Forks Over Knives."

Green watched a video which mentioned many things including a reference about the China Study.

But let's analyze what he said.

Green: It is a fact that people in Asia are growing taller now with better nutrition. Consumption of milk may be a part of that.

But a little later:

Green: Milk is falsely advertised as a good source of calcium. Asians do not have the levels of osteoporosis that Americans, who drink far more milk, have.

Maybe he's saying if you drink a lot of milk, it's bad, but yet milk provides "better nutrition" allowing you to grow much taller than without? But yet again, if it's "better nutrition", this "better nutrition" causes problems. Things that make you go hmmmm.

Green: Asians, like everyone, are facing a host of health problems today of which they were either not aware or did not experience in the past.

But a little later:

Green: probably 80% or more of the people do not have a taste for soda....Asians do not have the levels of osteoporosis that Americans, who drink far more milk, have.

Maybe even though he sounded like it, he's not connecting "a host of health problems" with osteoporosis"? Maybe he's saying that growing taller is one of the host of health problems? Who knows.


Green, get tested for B12 deficiency. Even if you've never done it before. The people you interact/conflict with over there will appreciate it!

kland quoting Green: probably 80% or more of the people do not have a taste for soda....Asians do not have the levels of osteoporosis that Americans, who drink far more milk, have.

Does milk help prevent osteoporosis? The fact is, milk intake correlates with higher incidence of hip fracture. Milk does not build strong bones. Asians are quickly catching up with Americans in heart disease, diabetes and cancers as they adopt the SAD - standard american diet.

Both of you like to misconstrue what I'm saying, but in the above two posts, APL does a better job of representing the truth. Thank you.

Milk is definitely not the answer for treating osteoporosis, as I was trying to point out in my post. In this, I agree with APL.

Let me make one thing clear: Americans do not use milk moderately. They use it excessively.

Milk, in moderate amounts, such as Asians might exemplify, does not contribute to hip fractures. Osteoporosis, however, may have other causes. Mrs. White points out one of the biggest: mercury. She says mercury causes "rottenness in the bones."

Asians eat a large amount of sea foods, and sea foods contain higher levels of mercury. So if Asians begin to see a higher incidence of ailments such as osteoporosis, milk cannot be made the scapegoat.

Again, it is a fact that Asians today are receiving better nutrition, and growing taller, than in past generations. No one can rule out milk as being a part of that, because milk is one of the changes that has come in simultaneous to this phenomenon.

Too much of a good thing is bad. Too little of a good thing is also bad.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

There is real common sense in dietetic reform. The subject should be studied broadly and deeply, and no one should criticize others because their practice is not, in all things, in harmony with his own. It is impossible to make an unvarying rule to regulate everyone's habits, and no one should think himself a criterion for all. Not all can eat the same things. Foods that are palatable and wholesome to one person may be distasteful, and even harmful, to another. Some cannot use milk, while others thrive on it. Some persons cannot digest peas and beans; others find them wholesome. For some the coarser grain preparations are good food, while others cannot use them. {MH 319.2}

Those who live in new countries or in poverty-stricken districts, where fruits and nuts are scarce, should not be urged to exclude milk and eggs from their dietary. It is true that persons in full flesh and in whom the animal passions are strong need to avoid the use of stimulating foods. Especially in families of children who are given to sensual habits, eggs should not be used. But in the case of persons whose blood-making organs are feeble,--especially if other foods to supply the needed elements cannot be obtained,--milk and eggs should not be wholly discarded. Great care should be taken, however, to obtain milk from healthy cows, and eggs from healthy fowls, that are well fed and well cared for; and the eggs should be so cooked as to be most easily digested. {MH 320.1}

The diet reform should be progressive. As disease in animals increases, the use of milk and eggs will become more and more unsafe. An effort should be made to supply their place with other things that are healthful and inexpensive. The people everywhere should be taught how to cook without milk and eggs, so far as possible, and yet have their food wholesome and palatable. {MH 320.2}

It is a mistake to suppose that muscular strength depends on the use of animal food. The needs of the system can be better supplied, and more vigorous health can be enjoyed, without its use. The grains, with fruits, nuts, and vegetables, contain all the nutritive properties necessary to make good blood. These elements are not so well or so fully supplied by a flesh diet. Had the use of flesh been essential to health and strength, animal food would have been included in the diet appointed man in the beginning. {MH 316.2}

Talk about balance! POINT:"The subject should be studied broadly and deeply, and no one should criticize others because their practice is not, in all things, in harmony with his own." POINT:"Some cannot use milk". POINT:"new countries or in poverty-stricken districts, where fruits and nuts are scarce, should not be urged to exclude milk and eggs from their dietary." POINT:"The people everywhere should be taught how to cook without milk and eggs, so far as possible". POINT:"But in the case of persons whose blood-making organs are feeble,--especially if other foods to supply the needed elements cannot be obtained,--milk and eggs should not be wholly discarded." POINT:"The grains, with fruits, nuts, and vegetables, contain all the nutritive properties necessary to make good blood." Repeat: "The subject should be studied broadly and deeply, and no one should criticize others because their practice is not, in all things, in harmony with his own."

Note that Ellen White never classes milk and eggs with flesh foods, or "animal food" in the quote above. In saying "grains, with fruits, nuts, and vegetables" she is contrasting a vegetarian (not vegan) diet with one consisting of meat. Eggs are not "meat."

APL, I have three questions for you:

1) Where in "grains, fruits, nuts, and vegetables" have you found a source of B12?
2) Do you need B12 for good blood?
3) Why does Mrs. White say the most healthful diet includes a little milk or cream?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Green - in this day, is getting B12 for vegans, and issue? NO, it does not need to be!

This whole thread started by you is in violation of EGW's direct statement to not criticize others for their diet, particularly in those that have intelligently studied the subject. This you have done constantly, and quite honestly, this attitude has the potential for harm. Not everyone needs to eat your diet. I'm happy you feel secure in your beliefs. And I don't care what you eat, as I have repeatedly said. EGW: "The subject should be studied broadly and deeply, and no one should criticize others because their practice is not, in all things, in harmony with his own." If you believe that we are in the true end times, then follow EGW's advise! "Let the diet reform be progressive. Let the people be taught how to prepare food without the use of milk or butter. Tell them that the time will soon come when there will be no safety in using eggs, milk, cream, or butter, because disease in animals is increasing in proportion to the increase of wickedness among men. The time is near when, because of the iniquity of the fallen race, the whole animal creation will groan under the diseases that curse our earth." {7T 135.1}

But Green only feeeels he is getting B12 from eggs. He neither knows how much is in eggs, how much he needs, nor how much is assimilated from eggs. And it is apparent that he has never been tested for B12. It appears that he self-diagnosed himself, and feeeelt that he was deficient, ate what he wanted (eggs), and "self-cured" himself. All by feeling. And then implies that Ellen White said you can get B12 from eggs, which she never said.


Green, do you disagree with APL's statement?