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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#157904
11/02/13 10:39 PM
11/02/13 10:39 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Every one of us should constantly bear in mind that this earth is not our dwelling place, but that we are to have an inheritance in the earth made new. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah symbolizes to us how this world will be destroyed by fire. It is not safe for any one of us to build our hopes in this life. We want first to seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness.... {CTr 80.2} Sodom and Gomorrah were like the Garden of Eden. The Lord had lavished His blessings upon that portion of the earth. Everything was beautiful; everything was lovely; and yet it did not lead people to honor the Giver. When the Lord rained the fire and brimstone from heaven to consume Sodom and Gomorrah, what a desolation! How easily could the blast of God make that beautiful situation an unsightly place. {CTr 80.3} There is a lesson in this destruction of Sodom to those who lived in Christ’s day, and the message comes down the lines to our time. [Matthew 11:20-24 quoted.] We can see that their guilt was measured according to the proportion of light that shone upon them. And this is a lesson to every one of us before whom God has opened the precious light of truth.... {CTr 80.4} I do not quote from the book, Christ Triumphant. Why? Because it is a paraphrase. Not that I disagree with your quote per se. But if I were to quote from CTr, I would quote the following, and people would then cry foul because it is a paraphrase! Herod and the wicked authorities killed the Just One, but Christ never killed anyone, and we may attribute the spirit of persecution—because men and women want liberty of conscience—to its origin, Satan. He is a deceiver, a liar, a murderer, an accuser of the brethren. He loves to see human misery. He exults in distress, and as we view the cruel persecutions of those who would obey God according to the dictates of their own consciences, we may know that this is the mystery of iniquity. . . . {CTr 248.4} NOTE - Christ NEVER killed anyone. I would then throw in, All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. {8T 286.1} And my case is made. But I do not use CTr.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#157905
11/02/13 10:39 PM
11/02/13 10:39 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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"At His own will God summons the forces of nature to overthrow the might of His enemies—“fire and hail; snow, and vapor; stormy wind fulfilling His word.” Psalm 148:8. We are told of a greater battle to take place in the closing scenes of earth’s history, when “the Lord hath opened His armory, and hath brought forth the weapons of His indignation.” Jeremiah 50:25. The revelator describes the destruction that is to take place when the “great voice out of the temple of heaven” announces, “It is done.” He says, “There fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent.” Revelation 16:17, 21. {EP 362} This is a plague that is from God on the wicked from the hand of the angel. Is this angel Satan?
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#157906
11/02/13 10:40 PM
11/02/13 10:40 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Why don't you answer a question straight instead of continually diverting the subject?
Did God destroy Sodom? Did God send fiery serpents? God sent the fiery serpents exactly how He sent the fire and brimstone. Hosea 11:8 How shall I give you up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver you, Israel? how shall I make you as Admah? how shall I set you as Zeboim? my heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157907
11/02/13 10:58 PM
11/02/13 10:58 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Every one of us should constantly bear in mind that this earth is not our dwelling place, but that we are to have an inheritance in the earth made new. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah symbolizes to us how this world will be destroyed by fire. It is not safe for any one of us to build our hopes in this life. We want first to seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness.... {CTr 80.2} Sodom and Gomorrah were like the Garden of Eden. The Lord had lavished His blessings upon that portion of the earth. Everything was beautiful; everything was lovely; and yet it did not lead people to honor the Giver. When the Lord rained the fire and brimstone from heaven to consume Sodom and Gomorrah, what a desolation! How easily could the blast of God make that beautiful situation an unsightly place. {CTr 80.3} There is a lesson in this destruction of Sodom to those who lived in Christ’s day, and the message comes down the lines to our time. [Matthew 11:20-24 quoted.] We can see that their guilt was measured according to the proportion of light that shone upon them. And this is a lesson to every one of us before whom God has opened the precious light of truth.... {CTr 80.4} I do not quote from the book, Christ Triumphant. Why? Because it is a paraphrase. Not that I disagree with your quote per se. But if I were to quote from CTr, I would quote the following, and people would then cry foul because it is a paraphrase! Herod and the wicked authorities killed the Just One, but Christ never killed anyone, and we may attribute the spirit of persecution—because men and women want liberty of conscience—to its origin, Satan. He is a deceiver, a liar, a murderer, an accuser of the brethren. He loves to see human misery. He exults in distress, and as we view the cruel persecutions of those who would obey God according to the dictates of their own consciences, we may know that this is the mystery of iniquity. . . . {CTr 248.4} NOTE - Christ NEVER killed anyone. I would then throw in, All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. {8T 286.1} And my case is made. But I do not use CTr. I actually agree with this quote, but it is obvious to me that you don't understand what the intent is. As the anointed one, Jesus did not kill anyone. But the intent of that writing is obviously not about corporal punishment, it is about murder. Your case is not made.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#157908
11/02/13 11:23 PM
11/02/13 11:23 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
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So jsot - did God kill Saul? Did God send the fiery serpents? Is so HOW?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157909
11/02/13 11:26 PM
11/02/13 11:26 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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I'll get to that, but first I asked if you believe God destroyed Sodom.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#157911
11/02/13 11:29 PM
11/02/13 11:29 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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I'll get to that, but first I asked if you believe God destroyed Sodom. I did answer you. Just like he did the fiery serpents. And I qouted this: Hosea 11:8 How shall I give you up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver you, Israel? how shall I make you as Admah? how shall I set you as Zeboim? my heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together. Are you not following???
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#157912
11/02/13 11:45 PM
11/02/13 11:45 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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You are being argumentative and evasive.
Yes or no.
Did God destroy Sodom by raining fire out of heaven?
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#157913
11/02/13 11:49 PM
11/02/13 11:49 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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You are being argumentative and evasive.
Yes or no.
Did God destroy Sodom by raining fire out of heaven? Just as He did with the fiery serpents.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#157914
11/02/13 11:54 PM
11/02/13 11:54 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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“Every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.” “The indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He hath utterly destroyed them, He hath delivered them to the slaughter.” “Upon the wicked He shall rain quick burning coals, fire and brimstone and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.” Isaiah 9:5; 34:2; Psalm 11:6, margin. Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth’s surface seems one molten mass—a vast, seething lake of fire. It is the time of the judgment and perdition of ungodly men—“the day of the Lord’s vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion.” Isaiah 34:8. {GC 672.2} The wicked receive their recompense in the earth. Proverbs 11:31. They “shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts.” Malachi 4:1. Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished “according to their deeds.” The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God’s people to commit. His punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions, he is still to live and suffer on. In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch—Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and heaven and earth, beholding, declare the righteousness of Jehovah. {GC 673.1}
So if the fires of hell are just the culmination of the sin of the world and there is some spontaneous manifestation of fire, what keeps the more wicked burning longer?
Aren't they all made of the same matter? Wouldn't they all just go poof?
If there is retribution proportionate to the sin of every person or angel then what is it that makes them burn slower?
There is a judgment and we get to see that God has judged correctly during the 1000 years, and as a result of His judgment those people burn at different rates. Doesn't this suggest that God is implicated in the execution of judgment?
Or is it that God just cant contain the fire any longer and they just burn because they sinned? There is an order and God is the judge.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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