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Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#159063
12/07/13 02:53 PM
12/07/13 02:53 PM
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SDA
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[quote=APL]M: Jesus commanded His chosen people to "smite" and "utterly destroy" His enemies. Those who obeyed He blessed. And those who disobeyed He cursed and killed.
A: No question! BUT - was this plan A? Nope. Does this prove that this is how God handles all such situations? Nope. This was God's permissive will, not His ideal will. Just as God gave instructions on how to handle adultery via polygamy and divorce. God's permissive will, not His ideal will. Jesus did not permit the Hebrews to "utterly destroy" His enemies - He commanded them to do it. Jesus does not command people to sin. Plan A involved Jesus using hornets and Hebrews to kill the men, women, and children in the Promised Land. Ideal? Of course not. Ideally A&E would have refused to disobey. Didn't happen. Ideally the Canaanites would have embraced Jesus as their Saviour. Didn't happen. [/quote]
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Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#159068
12/07/13 03:18 PM
12/07/13 03:18 PM
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OP
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Posts: 6,368
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Then I'll also answer yours in like manner. Works both ways!
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#159071
12/07/13 08:36 PM
12/07/13 08:36 PM
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M: Are you suggesting you would say, "All that the Lord hath said I will do" and immediately thereafter worship a golden calf?
A: This is what the children of Israel did. They refused to follow God. God continued to work with them, even when they did fight. But they were never supposed to fight. I'm still trying to discern your answer to GC's question. For the life of me I cannot figure out how you answered his question. If Jesus commanded you to kill criminals and combatants would you obey? Perhaps you believe Jesus would never command you to do such a thing? However, for the sake of discussion, put yourself in Moses' shoes. Would you obey like Moses did? Or, would you try to plead with Jesus to rescind His command (like Moses did when Jesus threatened to wipe out the Jews and start over with Moses)?
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Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ?
[Re: APL]
#159076
12/08/13 03:56 AM
12/08/13 03:56 AM
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Then I'll also answer yours in like manner. Works both ways! APL, I'm just following my example, Jesus. You are following your example, the chief priests and elders. And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things. (Matthew 21:27) Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#159079
12/08/13 06:45 AM
12/08/13 06:45 AM
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OP
SDA
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Thanks OK - I already know your answer. Blessings? Really? You mean that? Seems a bit trite.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ?
[Re: APL]
#159082
12/08/13 02:20 PM
12/08/13 02:20 PM
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APL, I think you would refuse to obey if Jesus commanded you to kill criminals or combatants.
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Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#159083
12/08/13 02:21 PM
12/08/13 02:21 PM
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[quote=Mountain Man][quote=APL]M: Jesus commanded His chosen people to "smite" and "utterly destroy" His enemies. Those who obeyed He blessed. And those who disobeyed He cursed and killed.
A: No question! BUT - was this plan A? Nope. Does this prove that this is how God handles all such situations? Nope. This was God's permissive will, not His ideal will. Just as God gave instructions on how to handle adultery via polygamy and divorce. God's permissive will, not His ideal will. Jesus did not permit the Hebrews to "utterly destroy" His enemies - He commanded them to do it. Jesus does not command people to sin. Plan A involved Jesus using hornets and Hebrews to kill the men, women, and children in the Promised Land. Ideal? Of course not. Ideally A&E would have refused to disobey. Didn't happen. Ideally the Canaanites would have embraced Jesus as their Saviour. Didn't happen. [/quote] [/quote]
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Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#159086
12/08/13 02:42 PM
12/08/13 02:42 PM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Jesus commanded His chosen people to "smite" and "utterly destroy" His enemies. Those who obeyed He blessed. And those who disobeyed He cursed and killed. What would have happened if the people had obeyed God in the beginning? We don't know the answer. God's plan was to drive the people out slowly before them, "not in one year". Israel need not lose one man! But the people were full of unbelief.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#159087
12/08/13 02:43 PM
12/08/13 02:43 PM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Then I'll also answer yours in like manner. Works both ways! APL, I'm just following my example, Jesus. You are following your example, the chief priests and elders. And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things. (Matthew 21:27) Blessings, Green Cochoa. When a question was brought to Christ, His answer was, "Have ye not read?" "What saith the Scriptures?" Christ could have answered every perplexing question brought to Him, but He did not do this. He directed His questioners to the great store-house of knowledge. He knew that He could not always be with them in human form, and He desired to teach them to make the Word their dependence. "Search the Scriptures," He said. He referred them to His own inspired Word, that when tempted by the enemy they might meet him as He had done, saying "It is written." Thus the enemy could be repulsed; for he has no power over the one who relies on the testimony of God's Word. {ST, March 28, 1906 par. 1} Of the Word of God, the psalmist writes, "The entrance of Thy words 'giveth light; it giveth understanding to the simple." It is a light shining in a dark place. As we search its pages, light enters the heart, illuminating the mind. By this light we see what we ought to be. {ST, March 28, 1906 par. 2}
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ?
[Re: APL]
#159090
12/08/13 05:01 PM
12/08/13 05:01 PM
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M: Jesus commanded His chosen people to "smite" and "utterly destroy" His enemies. Those who obeyed He blessed. And those who disobeyed He cursed and killed.
A: What would have happened if the people had obeyed God in the beginning? We don't know the answer. God's plan was to drive the people out slowly before them, "not in one year". Israel need not lose one man! But the people were full of unbelief. They did obey Jesus. He commanded them to attack and kill the Amalekites. Jesus did not "permit" the Hebrews to "utterly destroy" His enemies - He commanded them to do it. Jesus does not command people to violate His law. Exodus
17:9 And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand.
17:10 So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek: and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill.
17:11 And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed.
17:12 But Moses' hands [were] heavy; and they took a stone, and put [it] under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.
17:13 And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.
17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this [for] a memorial in a book, and rehearse [it] in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.
17:15 And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi:
17:16 For he said, Because the LORD hath sworn [that] the LORD [will have] war with Amalek from generation to generation. Jesus did not tell them, Don't fight. Instead, He said, "The Lord will have war. Go out and fight with the edge of the sword."
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