MM:Nothing happens without Jesus causing it, commanding it, or permitting it. Nature cannot act without Him. Evil angels cannot manipulate nature without His permission. Volcanoes cannot explode without Him causing it, commanding it, or permitting it. Sink holes cannot collapse without Him causing it, commanding it, or permitting it.

QUESTION - Is God's WILL being acted out on earth as it is in heaven? ANSWER: NO. Is God responsible for all the evil that happens? I would guess you would say yes. I do not believe that God commands or causes Storms to kill, maim, destroy. There is God's permissive will. But how does this work? IF you do not believe in free will, then God is indeed responsible for everything that happens. But if you believe in free will, then while God is the force the enables everything, He is in no way responsible for the choices that we make. He did put limits on Satan's dealing with Job. He did put limits in Satan's ability to corrupt life as Genesis 3 states. Of course in the great controversy with Christ, Satan can call foul in not allowing his alterations to play out. Christ came to give us the clearest evidence of not only God's Character, but also the results of sin. Sin was allowed to play out in the person of Jesus Christ, and it was sin that killed Christ.

MM: Jesus never commanded divorce or polygamy. Do you agree?

Have you read the book of Ezra recently? Read chapters 9 and 10.

But He did on many, many, many occasions command capital punishment and war. Do you agree?

I have stated repeatedly, that God did give instructions for war. Have I denied that? What I have denied is that this is God's perfect will. It is not . God never indended the people to personally fight. They were suppose to do their part. They were not to be idle. Even with Jericho, they were supposed to shout.

The problem is that I think that you are like Green and asygo in that you reject the clearest picture of God that we have, and that is Jesus Christ. It is true, that in many various ways God has communicated to us via the prophets. But in these last days, He has spoken to us by His son, who is the EXACT image of God, Hebrews 1:1-3. The Father has testified this fact, "This is my son, my chosen: hear ye him". Luke 9:35. Jesus testimony is greater that John's. We are to look to Christ to understand and unlock the OT. If you reject the view of God as revealed by Christ's life on this earth, you are rejecting the truth about God. If you have seen Jesus, you have seen the Father, John 14:9.

John 5:36-43
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father has given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father has sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And you have not his word abiding in you: for whom he has sent, him you believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And you will not come to me, that you might have life.
41 I receive not honor from men.
42 But I know you, that you have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and you receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive.

This is an important warning. If you reject the picture of God as revealed by Jesus, you are rejecting the truth! Jesus is THE LIGHT and the LIFE.

With that in mind, what did Jesus say to do to your enemies? If hungry, feed them. If they hit you, turn the other cheek. YOU are to love your enemy! Is this a new commandment? Yes and no. In the OT, your neighbor was believed to be your fellow Israelite. Jesus said that all men are you neighbor.

Jesus is THE ANSWER. Reject Christ, you reject God.

APL, not so fast. Before we continue please address the following points. Thank you.

Do you believe that JESUS is the fullest, clearest picture of God or not? If you NOT, then there is no point in continuing.

MM - A new series by Herb Montgomery has just been released! Listen to it. He is talking about the violence in the OT in view of Jesus of the NT. LISTEN to it. Read the Bible quotations provided. What do you see. It will only take you 4 hours of your life.

http://www.renewedheartministries.com/AudioPresentationSeries.aspx?series=42

Yes, I do. However, I believe the entire Bible pictures Jesus in the clearest, fullest, most complete sense.

"It is the voice of Christ that speaks through patriarchs and prophets, from the days of Adam even to the closing scenes of time. The Saviour is revealed in the Old Testament as clearly as in the New. It is the light from the prophetic past that brings out the life of Christ and the teachings of the New Testament with clearness and beauty. The miracles of Christ are a proof of His divinity; but a stronger proof that He is the world's Redeemer is found in comparing the prophecies of the Old Testament with the history of the New. {DA 799.2}


"The Old Testament presents lessons from the lips of Christ, and these lessons have not lost their force in any particular."

PS - Are you unwilling to address each of the points one by one? If so, no problem. I would appreciate it, though, if you would.

You are quoting the CTr. I could use the Ctr to show you where is says Christ NEVER killed anyone! However, the CTr is a paraphrase. You know that, right?

That said, your DA quote is clear the "prophesies" of the OT and the history of the NT is extremely useful. The stores of the OT are useful. They still are the lessor light to the greater light. Are you willing to listen to Herb Montgomery do the review of the stories in the OT with the Jesus we see in the NT?

Are for getting a clear picture of Jesus in the OT, who has seen God in the OT? Moses did not. Moses talked with God. The ONLY person to have seen God is Jesus. You discount the scripture verses I quoted to make the statement that the OT is a clear revelation of the character of God. I agree that when viewed from a knowledge of Jesus Christ, we do see the truth about God in the OT. I quoted several verses, Hebrews 1:1-3; Luke 9:35; John 14:9; John 5:36-43. Do you have an equal number to support your view? Please, share them.

I have answered a number of these points already, and you want me to repeat them? You have not shown me clearly where I represent you wrongly which you claim I have. What is the point of repeating what I have already say, without showing me where I am wrong?

If you feel like addressing the points is repeating what you've already written, then, yes, I would appreciate one more clear, concise summary. Thank you.

PS - I'm not here to change your mind. I only want to understand what you believe.

I've already listened to the first 2 lectures by Montgomery, and I live very much were he is going. Listen to him.

http://www.renewedheartministries.com/AudioPresentationSeries.aspx?series=42