Typhoon Haiyan and "Natural" Evil (Youtube Video)

He doesn't cause sin nor does he cause the effect of sin. It's because people have given themselves up to sin that we have all the terrible things going on in this world -- from deranged people doing diabolical things, to nature going berserk because of the balances of nature being manipulated by humans.

However, when we take that reality of the great controversy which shows the effects and end results of sin, and insist that God NEVER puts a decided end to the sin, a whole different set of problems arise in which the person taking that stand must re-interpret vast amounts of scripture.

We just witnessed one of the deadliest typhoons on the Philippians -- Why did it happen? No, I don't think God caused it. The extreme weather is the result of people manipulating the balances of nature. Geo engineering.

It's only because God sends his angels to hold back the destructive winds of strife in order to give people a chance to accept salvation, that we still have a livable planet!

. . . but it's not nature "deciding" anything, it is the manipulation of nature by sinful mankind.

You see -- we need to accept both positions.
1. Sin reveals it's self destructive nature
2. God has in the past rooted out those who have fully given themselves up to sin because to allow them to live would mean their influence would rob many honest people of eternal life. And in the future God will put a decided end to sin. And everyone (even those who have lost out) will recognize that God is just in doing so.

M: During His 33 year sojourn on Earth when did Jesus:

1. Punish sinners by withdrawing His retraining hand and allowing nature to act in and of itself resulting in viruses, diseases, epidemics, earthquakes, fires, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, typhoons, volcanic eruptions, sink holes, etc?

2. Punish sinners by withdrawing His protection and permitting evil angels to employ nature as a weapon causing viruses, diseases, epidemics, earthquakes, fires, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, typhoons, volcanic eruptions, sink holes, etc?

3. Command someone like Moses to stone sinners to death and to wage war killing enemy combatants because they mistakenly believed killing is right?

A: In the life of Christ on this earth, what do we learn about how He treated His enemies? In His life on earth, what do we learn of how He treated sinners? What was the role of the Jewish people in the Old Testament? They were to reveal God's character to the world. Did they fulfill that role? NO. The whole story of the Old Testament is full of apostasy, with a few glimmering examples of faithfulness. Over and over in the OT, we read about how God did this and that for destruction. Over and over we see that the character of the God that worked with the Israelites was like the Christ in the New. Deuteronomy 31:17-18 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come on us, because our God is not among us? 18 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have worked, in that they are turned to other gods. God is not the causative agent. The lack of God is the causative agent. Paul understood the meaning of the wrath of God. Read Romans 1. We do learn of what happens when Christ withdraws His protection as foretold by Christ on the destruction of Jerusalem. God was not the causative agent in its destruction. When their cup of iniquity was full, God gave them up.

APL, I will address the list for you, the way I think you believe. I may not get everything right. Please confirm and/or correct as necessary. Thank you.

1. Nature is not a ticking time bomb waiting and eager to unleash its pent up powers. Nature is self-acting. It can and does act according to fixed laws. It does not rely on Jesus to act.

2. Nature is inert. It can do nothing in and of itself. It cannot empower itself to act independent of Jesus. False.

3. Nature does what Jesus empowers it to do or what He permits evil angels to do with it. True. But nature is not solely dependent on Jesus to act. It can act without Him. Evil angels can also empower nature to act without Jesus' involvement.

4. Evil angels cannot empower nature to act. They can manipulate it to wreak havoc but only because Jesus empowers it to act accordingly. False.

5. Animals and natural disasters are entirely different realities as it relates to this topic. Animals act by instincts. False. Nature can also act on its own without Jesus' involvement.

6. Natural disasters act according to Jesus' employment of nature or according to evil angels manipulation of nature (and they can only manipulate it in accordance with how Jesus is willing to permit). False. Nature can act without Jesus. And evil angels can empower nature to act.

7. Permitting divorce and commanding capital punishment and war are also two entirely different realities. False. They are nearly identical issues.

8. Jesus never once commanded divorce. False. Jesus has commanded divorce.

9. But on many, many occasions He commanded capital punishment and war. True. But He only did so because Moses mistakenly assumed killing is right.

10. The idea that He originally did not want the Jews to occupy Canaan through force of arms is unbiblical. False. He wanted to do it all by Himself without help from the Jews.

11. Not once did Jesus forbid the Jews to drive out the occupants of the Promised Land with the edge of the sword. It is implied because He wanted to do it Himself.

12. The idea that holy angels are rejoicing and praising God Almighty for the evil work of evil angels is a hard sell. They're not rejoicing and praising God for the work of evil angels. They are rejoicing and praising God because He is allowing sin to run its natural course.

13. Do you think Jesus is less culpable when He permits evil men and evil angels to cause death and disaster? If so, please explain why. Zero culpability because He will not interfere with their freedom to do and choose.

14. Do you think evil angels are free to wreak havoc however they please? Or, do you think Jesus sets limits and works to ensure they are not exceeded? No, evil angels are not free to wreak havoc at will. Yes, Jesus works to protect the innocent.

Your interpretation limits Jesus to one way - withdraw protection and permit destruction. It forces you to overlook the obvious meaning of the words employed in certain passages.