When Inspiration clearly says Jesus did something we can believe He did it. Jesus burned alive Nadab and Abihu. "And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord." No doubt about it. Don't have to wonder if Jesus commanded holy angels to do it or if He permitted evil angels. "Fire from his presence destroyed them in their sin. {4aSG 125.1} "A fire blazed out from the holy of holies and consumed them. {Te 280.1}

The reason Jesus told Aaron not to publicly mourn the loss of his boys is clearly explained in the SOP.


Your attempt at levity seems misplaced. When Jesus causes, commands, or permits disease, disaster, and death - He does so for reasons that make sense to Him. He will explain those reasons to us in heaven (if He doesn't do so beforehand). When circumstances force Jesus to cause, command, or permit disease, disaster, and death - it makes Him very, very sad. But nothing will prevent Him from the doing the right thing, even if it breaks His heart. It should break our hearts, too.

Kland, why do you think Jesus withdraws and permits disease, disaster, and death? Why doesn't He prevent it? Or, do you think He is unable to prevent it for legal or physical reasons?

After reading what you posted here and elsewhere on the topic, I am very certain the way I addressed the list of points above represents what you believe.

Ok, I can now see why you say that since you believe Jesus made Saul commit suicide. When the Bible says God slew Saul, but elsewhere we find Saul killed himself, you see them as one and the same and so need no further study to understand why there is a apparent contradiction, because you see no contradiction.

That when bad things happen in this world, it is directly because of God and that He planned, intended, and caused it to happen, that He willed it to happen.

'Ma’am, it's God's will that your son was brutally murdered.'


MM, why should we be sad for Jesus doing the right thing? And if we cannot know if He is punishing someone or not, then why should we interfere with His punishment to lessen it?

You're very sure you are accurate with APL's beliefs but you're very sure I'm not accurate with your beliefs? I find my assessment right on with what you answered them.

k: 1. So this would mean that with the same act, one would not know if evil caused it or if Jesus caused it.

MM: 1. Unless Jesus tells us personally, we cannot be certain whether He caused it, commanded it, or permitted it. But we can know with absolute certainty He could have prevented it, but for reasons that make sense to Jesus He allowed it.

I don't see a variance.

Kland, my posts speak for themselves. You are seriously wrong about what I believe. There is no excuse for your ignorance. I have been thoroughly forthcoming.

Tornado outbreak: I might nearly have missed this but for the fact that it was international news and was brought to my attention this morning. Here's a quote from Wikipedia.



We keep seeing things like "deadliest on record" or "record-breaking" in the news with these events.



Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

If God destroys by withdrawing His protection, wouldn't that mean He withdraws His troops instead of sending them to the battle?



APL, are you able to witness these things? or are your eyes fast shut?



Perhaps APL would have been destroyed in Sodom had he been an inhabitant of that beautiful city. He could not have believed that God would do such a thing as destroy it. This was the same belief the children of Lot held who perished in its destruction.



The following quote is also germane to this question.



Notice that Mrs. White does not ever speak of these judgments being on account of the "devil's wrath." It is always "God's wrath" that comes in judgment. Yes, the devil has "wrath," but his wrath is because he knows his time is short. His wrath does not execute justice or judgment.

Now, if God's wrath were exercised merely by allowing the devil to do his dirty work, don't you suppose we would find at least once where Mrs. White spoke of the devil's wrath coming in judgment? That this is never the case tells us something very, very important.

He that hath an ear, let him hear.


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

And Ellen White has given us plain statements about God's wrath which is not like your wrath at all.

The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. Says the prophet: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1. Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work. By stubborn rejection of divine love and mercy, the Jews had caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them, and Satan was permitted to rule them according to his will. The horrible cruelties enacted in the destruction of Jerusalem are a demonstration of Satan's vindictive power over those who yield to his control. {GC 35.3}

We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy and long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power of the evil one. But when men pass the limits of divine forbearance, that restraint is removed. God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of light rejected, every warning despised or unheeded, every passion indulged, every transgression of the law of God, is a seed sown which yields its unfailing harvest. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan. The destruction of Jerusalem is a fearful and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy. Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. {GC 36.1}

The Saviour's prophecy concerning the visitation of judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment, of which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon His law. Dark are the records of human misery that earth has witnessed during its long centuries of crime. The heart sickens, and the mind grows faint in contemplation. Terrible have been the results of rejecting the authority of Heaven. But a scene yet darker is presented in the revelations of the future. The records of the past,--the long procession of tumults, conflicts, and revolutions, the "battle of the warrior . . . with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood" (Isaiah 9:5),--what are these, in contrast with the terrors of that day when the restraining Spirit of God shall be wholly withdrawn from the wicked, no longer to hold in check the outburst of human passion and satanic wrath! The world will then behold, as never before, the results of Satan's rule. {GC 36.2}

But in that day, as in the time of Jerusalem's destruction, God's people will be delivered, everyone that shall be found written among the living. Isaiah 4:3. Christ has declared that He will come the second time to gather His faithful ones to Himself: "Then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matthew 24:30, 31. Then shall they that obey not the gospel be consumed with the spirit of His mouth and be destroyed with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8. Like Israel of old the wicked destroy themselves; they fall by their iniquity. By a life of sin, they have placed themselves so out of harmony with God, their natures have become so debased with evil, that the manifestation of His glory is to them a consuming fire. {GC 37.1}

Funny why you would have missed it, you could have read my post #158476 at 10:15 AM yesterday.

Well, kland, I didn't see that post, and you haven't helped me to find it. But it's nice to know you posted something.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.