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Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: dedication] #158625
11/22/13 03:08 PM
11/22/13 03:08 PM
J
JAK  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
But People will say God is punishing the world because they aren't keeping Sunday.

Originally Posted By: dedication
God is allowing sin to operate from cause to effect so all will know where sin leads.

Originally Posted By: dedication
So people will think enforcing Sunday will return the country back into God's protective favor.

Originally Posted By: dedication
...they seek to appease God...


Though I would agree that SOME people are making the connection between sin/weather/God's punishment, I would not say that this is the general understanding of why this type of extream weather is happening. In other words, the idea that this weather is a punishment from God sent to turn people back to Him and His law is not generally being voiced, at least not in the Canadian media.

So I am not sure I can agree with this idea.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: kland] #158631
11/22/13 08:07 PM
11/22/13 08:07 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
So why then would He be "punishing" the world? Or when you say, eventually conclude, you mean they will get it correct?

The passage above specifically says "In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power." Jesus, of course, set and enforces limits evil angels cannot exceed. They can do no more or less than what Jesus is willing to permit.

However, there is more to it. Other passages flesh out the picture. "Since the Flood, fire as well as water has been God's agent to destroy very wicked cities. {PP 109.1} Jesus works to punish sinners. He wields the forces of nature like weapons of mass destruction.

"In the day of the Lord, just before the coming of Christ, God will send lightnings from heaven in his wrath, which will unite with fire in the earth. The mountains will burn like a furnace, and will pour forth terrible streams of lava, destroying gardens and fields, villages and cities; and as they pour their melted ore, rocks and heated mud, into the rivers, will cause them to boil like a pot, and send forth massive rocks, and scatter their broken fragments upon the land with indescribable violence. Whole rivers will be dried up. The earth will be convulsed, and there will be dreadful eruptions and earthquakes everywhere. God will plague the wicked inhabitants of the earth until they are destroyed from off it. The saints are preserved in the earth in the midst of these dreadful commotions, as Noah was preserved in the ark at the time of the flood. {1SP 84.4}

Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: Mountain Man] #158634
11/22/13 11:10 PM
11/22/13 11:10 PM
APL  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: kland
So why then would He be "punishing" the world? Or when you say, eventually conclude, you mean they will get it correct?

The passage above specifically says "In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power." Jesus, of course, set and enforces limits evil angels cannot exceed. They can do no more or less than what Jesus is willing to permit.

However, there is more to it. Other passages flesh out the picture. "Since the Flood, fire as well as water has been God's agent to destroy very wicked cities. {PP 109.1} Jesus works to punish sinners. He wields the forces of nature like weapons of mass destruction.

"In the day of the Lord, just before the coming of Christ, God will send lightnings from heaven in his wrath, which will unite with fire in the earth. The mountains will burn like a furnace, and will pour forth terrible streams of lava, destroying gardens and fields, villages and cities; and as they pour their melted ore, rocks and heated mud, into the rivers, will cause them to boil like a pot, and send forth massive rocks, and scatter their broken fragments upon the land with indescribable violence. Whole rivers will be dried up. The earth will be convulsed, and there will be dreadful eruptions and earthquakes everywhere. God will plague the wicked inhabitants of the earth until they are destroyed from off it. The saints are preserved in the earth in the midst of these dreadful commotions, as Noah was preserved in the ark at the time of the flood. {1SP 84.4}
If you read the context of the above quote - it is the end of the world. How does God "cause" all this calamity? Revelation 7:1-3 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

This describes the same thing that happen when God "sent" the fiery serpents. Because they had been shielded by divine power they had not realized the countless dangers by which they were continually surrounded. In their ingratitude and unbelief they had anticipated death, and now the Lord permitted death to come upon them. The poisonous serpents that infested the wilderness were called fiery serpents, on account of the terrible effects produced by their sting, it causing violent inflammation and speedy death. As the protecting hand of God was removed from Israel, great numbers of the people were attacked by these venomous creatures. {PP 429.1}

Which fits with Great Controversy, We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy and long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power of the evil one. But when men pass the limits of divine forbearance, that restraint is removed. God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of light rejected, every warning despised or unheeded, every passion indulged, every transgression of the law of God, is a seed sown which yields its unfailing harvest. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan. The destruction of Jerusalem is a fearful and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy. Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. {GC 36.1}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: APL] #158642
11/23/13 01:03 AM
11/23/13 01:03 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Jesus will one day command the destroying angels, the ministers of vengeance to pour out the vials of God's wrath:

"The words will soon be spoken, "Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth." One of the ministers of vengeance declares. "And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because Thou hast judged thus." These heavenly beings, in executing the mandate of God, ask no questions, but do as they are bid. Jehovah of hosts, the Lord God Almighty, the just, the true, and the holy, has given them their work to do. With unswerving fidelity they go forth panoplied in pure white linen, having their breasts girded with golden girdles. And when their task is done, when the last vial of God's wrath is poured out, they return and lay their emptied vials at the feet of the Lord. {TM 432.1}

Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: Mountain Man] #158644
11/23/13 03:13 AM
11/23/13 03:13 AM
APL  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Jesus will one day command the destroying angels, the ministers of vengeance to pour out the vials of God's wrath:

"The words will soon be spoken, "Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth." One of the ministers of vengeance declares. "And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because Thou hast judged thus." These heavenly beings, in executing the mandate of God, ask no questions, but do as they are bid. Jehovah of hosts, the Lord God Almighty, the just, the true, and the holy, has given them their work to do. With unswerving fidelity they go forth panoplied in pure white linen, having their breasts girded with golden girdles. And when their task is done, when the last vial of God's wrath is poured out, they return and lay their emptied vials at the feet of the Lord. {TM 432.1}
Symbolic language - what does it mean? How does a vial hold wrath? What is God's wrath? What is the wrath of the LAMB? What is a lamb - a baby sheep!


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: APL] #158645
11/23/13 04:04 AM
11/23/13 04:04 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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There is nothing symbolic about the seven last plagues, about the death and devastation holy angels will cause when Jesus commands.

Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: Mountain Man] #158648
11/23/13 04:57 AM
11/23/13 04:57 AM
APL  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
There is nothing symbolic about the seven last plagues, about the death and devastation holy angels will cause when Jesus commands.
Who is the acting subject in the 7 last plagues? God or Satan?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: APL] #158652
11/23/13 03:52 PM
11/23/13 03:52 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Both. Holy angels cause the plagues and evil angels add to it. God works, too. Read GC chapter 39 and 40. In particular:

1. Evil Angels. "The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent." "As Satan accuses the people of God on account of their sins, the Lord permits him to try them to the uttermost." "The wrath of Satan increases as his time grows short, and his work of deceit and destruction will reach its culmination in the time of trouble." "As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ." "With shouts of triumph, jeering, and imprecation, throngs of evil men are about to rush upon their prey, when, lo, a dense blackness, deeper than the darkness of the night, falls upon the earth."

2. Holy Angels. "God's judgments will be visited upon those who are seeking to oppress and destroy His people." "To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act." "The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people." "Terrible as these inflictions are, God's justice stands fully vindicated."

3. God. It is at midnight that God manifests His power for the deliverance of His people. The sun appears, shining in its strength. Signs and wonders follow in quick succession. The wicked look with terror and amazement upon the scene, while the righteous behold with solemn joy the tokens of their deliverance. Everything in nature seems turned out of its course. The streams cease to flow. Dark, heavy clouds come up and clash against each other. In the midst of the angry heavens is one clear space of indescribable glory, whence comes the voice of God like the sound of many waters, saying: "It is done." Revelation 16:17. {GC 636.2}

That voice shakes the heavens and the earth. There is a mighty earthquake, "such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great." Verses 17, 18. The firmament appears to open and shut. The glory from the throne of God seems flashing through. The mountains shake like a reed in the wind, and ragged rocks are scattered on every side. There is a roar as of a coming tempest. The sea is lashed into fury. There is heard the shriek of a hurricane like the voice of demons upon a mission of destruction. The whole earth heaves and swells like the waves of the sea. Its surface is breaking up. Its very foundations seem to be giving way. Mountain chains are sinking. Inhabited islands disappear. The seaports that have become like Sodom for wickedness are swallowed up by the angry waters. Babylon the great has come in remembrance before God, "to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath." Great hailstones, every one "about the weight of a talent," are doing their work of destruction. Verses 19, 21. The proudest cities of the earth are laid low. The lordly palaces, upon which the world's great men have lavished their wealth in order to glorify themselves, are crumbling to ruin before their eyes. Prison walls are rent asunder, and God's people, who have been held in bondage for their faith, are set free. {GC 636.3}

Thick clouds still cover the sky; yet the sun now and then breaks through, appearing like the avenging eye of Jehovah. Fierce lightnings leap from the heavens, enveloping the earth in a sheet of flame. Above the terrific roar of thunder, voices, mysterious and awful, declare the doom of the wicked. The words spoken are not comprehended by all; but they are distinctly understood by the false teachers. Those who a little before were so reckless, so boastful and defiant, so exultant in their cruelty to God's commandment-keeping people, are now overwhelmed with consternation and shuddering in fear. Their wails are heard above the sound of the elements. Demons acknowledge the deity of Christ and tremble before His power, while men are supplicating for mercy and groveling in abject terror. {GC 637.2}

Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: Mountain Man] #158653
11/23/13 03:53 PM
11/23/13 03:53 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Southwest USA
"Demons acknowledge the deity of Christ and tremble before His power . . . ." Not their power - His power. They will be scared, terrified like they were during the Flood. "Satan himself, who was compelled to remain in the midst of the warring elements, feared for his own existence. {PP 99.3}

Re: Are Extreme Weather Events a Sign of . . . . ? [Re: Mountain Man] #158657
11/23/13 06:48 PM
11/23/13 06:48 PM
APL  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Western, USA
" In that terrible hour they saw that the transgression of God's law had caused their ruin." {PP 99.3}. Transgression of the law caused their ruin, or God caused their ruin? Which?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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