APL, do you agree with this? I thought you have been promoting the idea that sin IS transmitted genetically.

"Sinning nature" - Does anyone else find it strange that in order to "clarify" what EGW meant, Walper used something that EGW never wrote? Furthermore, it implies that it is the "nature" that is sinning, rather than the person. I don't think that concept is in the Bible or SOP.

This part of the description of "sinful nature" is noteworthy: "influenced and tempted by Satan to do those things which are contrary to God’s will." Weren't Adam and Eve, in sinless human natures in Eden, "influenced and tempted by Satan to do those things which are contrary to God’s will"? Temptation is not limited to sinful nature. It seems Walper has fallen into the "holy flesh" trap of "sinless nature = cannot be tempted, cannot fall." Or she believes Adam and Eve had sinful natures before they sinned.

Emphasis mine.


So, according to Jones, there was no particle of difference between Jesus and us when it comes to the human nature. But there is a difference elsewhere:

If, according to Jones, "I need some one to help me who knows something about sinful nature; for that is the nature that I have," where can he get help for his sinful mind?

Our problem goes much deeper than the flesh.

When man transgressed the divine law, his nature became evil, and he was in harmony, and not at variance, with Satan. There exists naturally no enmity between sinful man and the originator of sin. {GC 505.2}

The real difficulty arises from the corruption of an unsanctified heart, and an unwillingness to submit to the control of God. {COL 331.2}

That's our problem, that's where our difficulty comes from. And for that, the post-lapsarian has no help.

Yes, Adam did not have a sinful nature. That is where Jesus's job was so much harder. As EGW says, none of the effects of sin were on Adam.

EGW:"The great work of redemption could be carried out by the Redeemer only as He took the place of fallen man. Burdened with the sins of the world, He must pass over the path where Adam fell, and redeem his failure. When Adam was assailed by the tempter, none of the effects of sin were upon him, but he was surrounded by the glories of Eden. But it was not thus with Jesus; for, bearing the infirmities of degenerate humanity, He entered the wilderness to cope with the mighty foe, that He might lift man up from the lowest depths of his degradation. Alone He was to tread the path of temptation and exercise self-control stronger than hunger, ambition, or death."{BEcho, November 15, 1892 par. 1}

Published in the Review, January 7, 1896, EGW writes about the camp meeting recently held in Australia. WW Prescott was one of the speakers and she praised him for his presentation. What was it that Prescott presented? One presentation was "The Word Became Flesh". Published in the Bible Echo, January 6, 1896, you find phrases such as, "Now verily, He helps the seed of Abraham by Himself becoming the seed of Abraham. God, sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh; that the righteousness of the law might be revealed in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." {January 6, 1896 WWP, BEST 4.5}. And, "But since the first Adam took his place, there has been a change, and humanity is sinful humanity. The power of righteousness has been lost. To redeem man from the place unto which he had fallen, Jesus Christ comes, and takes the very flesh now borne by humanity; He comes in sinful flesh {January 6, 1896 WWP, BEST 4.15}

He concludes, "The object in these remarks is not merely to establish a line of thought. It is to bring new life into our soul, and open up our ideas of the word of God and the gift of God, that we may be able to grasp His love for us. We need it. Nothing short of that will meet what we have to meet,-the world, the flesh, and the devil. But He that is for us is mightier than he that is against us. Let us have in our daily lives Jesus Christ, "the Word" that "became flesh." {January 13, 1896 WWP, BEST 13.4}

There is not doubt, that EGW believed, as most of those of her time, that Christ had our sinful human nature.

"When man transgressed the divine law, his nature became evil, and he was in harmony, and not at variance, with Satan." That was the nature of fallen Adam. Are you saying this was the nature Jesus had? He had an evil nature, in harmony with Satan?

We would do well to heed Jones' warning, "Don't go too far. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh; not in the likeness of sinful mind. Do not drag his mind into it."

You have quoted Jones and Waggoner well. You have quoted the same concept that I have that Rosangela has said is not true. EGW was fully aware of what Jones, Waggoner, Prescott, Haskell and others were teaching. The Baker letter is not a rebuke of their teaching. Never did EGW rebuke this teaching. In fact, it is our only hope.

Waggoner:
Do not forget, either, that the mystery of God is not God manifest in sinless flesh, but God manifest in sinful flesh. There could never be any mystery about God's manifesting himself in sinless flesh—in one who had no connection whatever with sin. That would be plain enough. But that he can manifest himself in flesh laden with sin and with all the tendencies of sin, such as ours is—that is a mystery. Yea, it is the mystery of God. And it is a glorious fact, thank the Lord! Believe it. And before all the world, and for the joy of every person in the world, in Jesus Christ he has demonstrated that this great mystery is indeed a fact in human experience. For "as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same." "In all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren." And therefore God "made him to be sin for us." "He hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." Thus, in our flesh, having our nature, laden with iniquity, and himself made to be sin, Christ Jesus lived in this world, tempted in all points like as we are; and yet God always caused him to triumph in him, and made manifest the savor of his knowledge by him in every place. Thus God was manifest in the flesh,—in our flesh, in human flesh laden with sin,—and made to be sin in itself, weak and tempted as ours is. And thus the mystery of God was made known to all nations for the obedience of faith. O, believe it! {September 29, 1896 ATJ, ARSH 621.7}

And this is the mystery of God to-day and forever—God manifest in the flesh, in human flesh, in flesh, laden with sin, tempted and tried. In this flesh, God will make manifest the knowledge of himself in every place where the believer is found. Believe it, and praise his holy name! {September 29, 1896 ATJ, ARSH 621.8}

EGW also writes, "As the head of humanity, Christ lived on this earth a perfect, consistent life, in conformity with the will of His heavenly Father. When He left the courts of heaven, he announced the mission that He designed to fulfill. "Lo, I come," He declared. "In the volume of the book it is written of Me, I delight to do Thy will, O My God." Always uppermost in His mind and heart was the thought, "Not My human will, but Thy will be done." This was the infallible principle that actuated Him in all His words and works, and that molded His Character. <His work is [to] do the will of His heavenly Father. The majesty of heaven was subjected to the lowliest humiliation>. Letter K-303, 1903 (emphasis in the original)

The letter also contains the following:
Throughout His experience, during the thirty-three years He spent on this earth, Christ was beset with all the temptations wherewith the human family are tempted, yet He was without a stain of sin.

"It is the privilege of every believer in Christ to possess Christ's nature, a nature far above that which Adam forfeited by transgression. {UL 18.3}