We have the word of God. That is what I want to obey, with God's power. Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Which is how I answered above.

APL, Moses wrote a huge part of the Bible. He obeyed when Jesus commanded him to kill criminals and combatants. Would you, if you stood in Moses' shoes, disobey?

They did obey Jesus. He commanded them to attack and kill the Amalekites. Jesus did not "permit" the Hebrews to "utterly destroy" His enemies - He commanded them to do it. Jesus does not command people to violate His law.


Jesus did not tell them, Don't fight. Instead, He said, "The Lord will have war. Go out and fight with the edge of the sword."

MM - - follow the flow!!! It was not God's plan that they fight. But they did fight, against God will. but God gave them instructions. Did they follow those instructions to figh? NO! Once they set out on their own plan, they still did not follow God's instructions. Did they clear out the land? NO! If they were so faithful, how come they were defeated? Is God impotent? It wa they unbelief.

APL,

Following your logic, if and only if that logic is valid, but certainly it is your logic, it was a sin for Saul to accept the kingship of Israel, because it was never God's intent to have Israel governed by kings.

You never have answered my question, but your logic leads me to conclude the following:

1) APL would never have offered his son Isaac upon the altar, because God could not be asking him to "sin" in "committing murder."

2) APL would never have assumed the position of king over Israel, because God could not be anointing him to such a "sinful" post of duty.

3) APL would never have stoned the Sabbath breaker, because God could not be asking him to "commit murder."

4) APL would never have slain Goliath, because God could not be "tempting" him to "commit murder."

5) APL would never have taken his brother's barren wife to raise up seed to his deceased brother, because God could not be asking him to "commit adultery."

6) APL would never have gone to anoint David king over Israel, because God could not be asking him to go against His original plan for theocracy, and because God could not be asking him to "lie" to the king's men should they ask concerning his business.

7) APL would never have killed Agag, the king of the Amalekites, much less have put all of their nation--men, women, and children--to the sword, because God could not really be asking him to commit genocide and murder.

8) APL would never have killed a lamb, kid, or goat, nor would he ever have confessed his sins over the head of such, because none of that was part of God's original plan.

9) APL should never eat vegetables, because they were not originally part of man's diet.

10) APL would never even think about punishing his child, because "God does not punish."

APL, if you are to reach God's Kingdom at the last, you have a few more things to unlearn. Your misconceptions and errors prevent you from seeing the wisdom of God's ways.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Green Consider one of your points above, Quote Green: 2) APL would never have assumed the position of king over Israel, because God could not be anointing him to such a "sinful" post of duty.

You obviously think it was a good thing for Israel to have a king (little k). If Israel had trusted God, they NEVER would have had a king. Asking for a king was a rejection of God.

1 Samuel 8:6-8 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed to the LORD. 7 And the LORD said to Samuel, Listen to the voice of the people in all that they say to you: for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. 8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even to this day, with which they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also to you.

In asking for a king, Israel was wanted to be like the other "nations". What were the other nations? HEATHEN. And the History of Israel bares this out. They did become like the heathen, and WORSE. Is this the standard that you Green wish to aspire? I certainly hope not!



I could pick holes in most of your conjecture above, but will spare you. Suffice it to say, that Israel rarely trusted God. If they had, they would have had no need to fight, God would have been their defender. Read 2 Chronicles 20. The REAL victories of Israel come from FAITH in God, NOT from the SWORD. If they had trusted God they would never have had a king. If they had trusted God, they would have gone into the promise land shortly after leaving Egypt.

I have plenty to learn and unlearn. But YOU Green that needs a change of heart. To unlearn your misconceptions and errors and see God as He is in Christ.

APL,

You are gifted at selective quotations. Why did you leave off at verse 8? Perhaps there is some truth you are avoiding in the next verse. Also, the command God gives is reiterated at the end of that chapter.



You wouldn't answer my other question, and I don't expect you will answer this one either--because to answer is to admit your position has been incorrect. However, that others will see that you do not admit of the truth, I will ask this plainly, and then if the deflections begin on your part, all will know where you stand and how untenable your position is that you are unable to speak plainly.

Question: Did the LORD speak against His will?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

You are not a good listener green. Did God give them a command to have a king? YES. Was this for the good of Israel, under the circumstances, YES! Was this God's perfect will? NO. It was God's permissive will, to meet the people where they were.

By using YOUR logic, God's will is that we have divorce. God's will is we have polygamy. But that is NOT God's will. It is God's permissive will, to meet the people where they were. It was not God's ideal. Why did God give the rules for divorce? Because of the hardness of the people's heart.

Why did God give Israel a king? Because of the people's hardness of their heart and their lack of faith. Asking for a king was a rejection of God.

You didn't answer the question. But I expected that.

If you do want to answer it, a "yes" or a "no" would be nice, not an ad hominem followed by a loosely-strung series of truths that do not provide a clear answer.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.