Exactly. That statement tells us that Jesus took on our fallen flesh, weakened by generations of sin, yet in His flesh there was no sin.

That sums it up as well as can be done.



Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

One analogy that comes to my mind, having worked with metal, is to compare the nature with a good piece of steel, and sin to the rust. After rust has done its work, the steel is weaker. Jesus accepted our weakened nature without the sin that would have weakened it further. He could have fallen. He could have sinned. But this He did not do.

Praise God! We have a wonderful Savior!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

"in its sin". What is "its"? The fallen nature. Christ was "made to be sin". He "bore our sin IN HIS BODY". Sin is real and physical, not an intangible.

It's not possible to extract your concept from that quote, APL, because if Jesus had sin "in His body" it could never have been said of Him that He "did not in the least participate in its sin." Sin in the body would necessarily involve participation. After all, He lived in it.



Note that "participate" does NOT mean "precipitate," nor does it necessarily mean "cause." In simplest form it means "share."

If our sinful natures have sin, and yet Christ's nature did not have sin, the distinction should preclude any notion of Christ "sharing" in the sinful nature with which we have to deal.



If Christ had had our sinful nature, He could not have kept the law any more than we. This fact is reiterated again in the following.



A "fallen nature," not one that has merely been weakened by the fall, would render its owner incapable of keeping God's law. Had Christ had this fallen nature, He would have been in the same boat we are, needing a Savior--as someone already pointed out here (was that Rosangela?).

The most important truth here, that all need to avail themselves of, is that Christ's perfect atonement has paved the way for all of us to rise above our sinful natures and to become like Christ. This is a work of faith. I have begun learning what seems like but the first lessons in this all-important work just recently. I feel I have wasted a lifetime in coming to some understanding of where to begin, and I regret that I have not laid hold on these truths much earlier.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

You are arguing against what Adventists have long preached.

Do not forget, either, that the mystery of God is not God manifest in sinless flesh, but God manifest in sinful flesh. There could never be any mystery about God's manifesting himself in sinless flesh—in one who had no connection whatever with sin. That would be plain enough. But that he can manifest himself in flesh laden with sin and with all the tendencies of sin, such as ours is—that is a mystery. Yea, it is the mystery of God. And it is a glorious fact, thank the Lord! Believe it. And before all the world, and for the joy of every person in the world, in Jesus Christ he has demonstrated that this great mystery is indeed a fact in human experience. For "as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same." "In all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren." And therefore God "made him to be sin for us." "He hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." Thus, in our flesh, having our nature, laden with iniquity, and himself made to be sin, Christ Jesus lived in this world, tempted in all points like as we are; and yet God always caused him to triumph in him, and made manifest the savor of his knowledge by him in every place. Thus God was manifest in the flesh,—in our flesh, in human flesh laden with sin,—and made to be sin in itself, weak and tempted as ours is. And thus the mystery of God was made known to all nations for the obedience of faith. O, believe it! {September 29, 1896 ATJ, ARSH 621.7}

And this is the mystery of God to-day and forever—God manifest in the flesh, in human flesh, in flesh, laden with sin, tempted and tried. In this flesh, God will make manifest the knowledge of himself in every place where the believer is found. Believe it, and praise his holy name! {September 29, 1896 ATJ, ARSH 621.8}


Now do not get a wrong idea of that word likeness. It is not the shape; it is not the photograph; it is not the likeness in the sense of an image, but it is likeness in the sense of being like indeed. The word likeness here is not the thought that is in the second chapter of Philippians, where it is shape, the form, or likeness as to form, but here in the book of Hebrews it is likeness in nature, likeness to the flesh as it is in itself, God sending His own Son in that which is just like sinful flesh. And in order to be just like sinful flesh, it would have to be sinful flesh; in order to be made flesh at all, as it is in this world, He would have to be just such flesh as it is in this world, just such as we have and that is sinful flesh. This is what is said in the words "likeness of sinful flesh." {February 19, 1895 ATJ, GCB 232.5}


Now that is simply an illustration of this law of human nature. If man had remained where God put him and as He put him, the law would have worked directly and easily; since man has got out of harmony with it, it still works directly, but it hurts. Now that law of heredity reached from Adam to the flesh of Jesus Christ as certainly as it reaches from Adam to the flesh of any of the rest of us, for He was one of us. In Him there were things that reached Him from Adam; in Him there were things that reached Him from David, from Manasseh, from the genealogy away back from the beginning until His birth. {February 21, 1895 ATJ, GCB 266.7}

Thus in the flesh of Jesus Christ--not in Himself, but in His flesh--our flesh which He took in the human nature--there were just the same tendencies to sin that are in you and me. And when He was tempted, it was the "drawing away of these desires that were in the flesh." These tendencies to sin that were in His flesh drew upon Him and sought to entice Him, to consent to the wrong. But by the love of God and by His trust in God, he received the power and the strength and the grace to say, "No," to all of it and put it all under foot. And thus being in the likeness of sinful flesh He condemned sin in the flesh. {February 21, 1895 ATJ, GCB 266.8}


Now as to Christ's not having "like passions" with us: In the Scriptures all the way through He is like us and with us according to the flesh. He is the seed of David according to the flesh. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh. Don't go too far. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, not in the likeness of sinful mind. Do not drag His mind into it. His flesh was our flesh, but the mind was "the mind of Christ Jesus." Therefore it is written: "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus." If He had taken our mind, how, then, could we ever have been exhorted to "let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus?" It would have been so already. But what kind of mind is ours? O, it is corrupted with sin also. Look at ourselves in the second chapter of Ephesians, beginning with the first verse and reading to the third, but the third verse is the one that has this particular point in it: {February 25, 1895 ATJ, GCB 327.1}


Nor is this to be accomplished by the exercise of the imagination. The Gospel deals in facts, not fancies. The flesh which Christ has sanctified by one offering is our flesh, the sinful flesh. It is now made holy, even with the inconceivable holiness that makes the heavenly sanctuary so sacred. "The temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." The holiness of Christ, which consecrates His dwelling-place, is shared with us, and so, being one in spirit with the beings there and in harmony with the surroundings, we may dwell in the house of the Lord without fear all the days of our life, to enquire in His temple, and to ask, in the name which gives us right of entrance, for whatsoever we desire. Only, remembering in whose body we come, as by a new and living way, it is fitting and significant that we draw near "having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water." {November 17, 1898 EJW, PTUK 722.1}


When we truly bear the name of Jesus, we are sunk out of sight, for it is He who lives, and not we, and it is He in us asking that He may be delivered from the power of sin in our flesh. He is dwelling in our flesh, in order that He may cleanse us from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit. "In the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with strong crying and tears, unto Him that was able to save Him from death," He was heard. Heb_5:7. He was saved from death, in that He was saved from sin. He "suffered in the flesh, being tempted," but He suffered not for Himself. The Lord laid on Him the iniquity of us all, and it was the infirmities of our sinful flesh that oppressed His soul, He is still pleading in sinful flesh, presenting His life in our behalf, and longing to be relieved from the burden of sin with which we make Him serve. {April 18, 1901 EJW, PTUK 244.4}

As you know, APL, EJW was not a prophet. If you want to catch my interest, use Mrs. White or the Bible.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

If you note, I also included AT Jones. Both men knew and worked with Ellen White. It is not my job to convince you. I have presented written material from EGW time widely published and never spoken against by EGW. I have presented the K303 letter which supports ATJ/EJW. I have spoken of the Baker letter and how it does not contradict ATJ/EJW. EGW says Christ came in Sinful Flesh, and life a Sinless Life. (see DA 311). If Christ was not like us, then He did not overcome what we need to overcome. I've quoted the Bible. 1 Peter 2:24; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 8:3 as representative.



Hello Green! This is what Christ came to do! To take our nature and keep the law!

Note the date and the dates of my previous quotes.

Christ took our fallen nature. Believe it.

I believe sin is the transgression of the law. Possessing a sinful flesh nature, which clamors for but cannot commit a sin, does not count as sinning. Born-again believers who are abiding in Jesus do and cannot (while abiding in Jesus) commit a sin.


I realize you believe possessing sinful flesh nature in and of itself counts as sinning; however, I'm happy you at least believe Jesus was tempted in every way we are and is our perfect example.

The Saviour took upon Himself the infirmities of humanity and lived a sinless life, that men might have no fear that because of the weakness of human nature they could not overcome. Christ came to make us "partakers of the divine nature," and His life declares that humanity, combined with divinity, does not commit sin. {MH 180.5}

You didn't comment on the quotes I shared with Arnold, the ones that depict Christians receiving a new, restored, transformed, purified, ennobled, elevated nature, a nature far superior to the one Adam forfeited - Christ's nature, the one He possessed while here in sinful flesh. Does this mean Christians receive a sinless nature?

Again,

"But here we must not become in our ideas common and earthly, and in our perverted ideas we must not think that the liability of Christ to yield to Satan's temptations degraded His humanity and He possessed the same sinful, corrupt propensities as man." {16MR 182.2}

Even after conversion, we still have sinful propensities.