Rosangela, are you certain "the same sinful, corrupt propensities as man" (from your post above) describes the "new nature" Christians receive when they experience conversion in God's appointed way? It sounds like you think there is no difference between the "old nature" and the "new nature"? Please consider the following insights:

Thank you, Rosangela. I agree with these truths.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

MM and APL should address each other directly. They're the only ones here that say Jesus had sinful tendencies.

But has anyone noticed that they are not saying the same thing? APL says Jesus had the same evil nature that fallen Adam did. MM says that Jesus had the same holy nature that converted Adam did. Yet, they both say that Jesus had sinful tendencies.

The rest of us (GC, Rosangela, dedication, me) say that Jesus did not have sinful tendencies.

Christ took our nature, fallen but not corrupted... {16MR 182.3}

Fallen but not corrupted. Who else in the history of mankind, other than Jesus, can that apply to?

asygo - I have no problem with the the 16 MR quote. In my copy, I have the part all marked up. Quote the entire paragraph! In fact, I would quote back several paragraphs! But here is the one in question:

The divine nature, combined with the human, made Him capable of yielding to Satan's temptations. Here the test to Christ was far greater than that of Adam and Eve, for Christ took our nature, fallen but not corrupted, and would not be corrupted unless He received the words of Satan in the place of the words of God. To suppose He was not capable of yielding to temptation places Him where He cannot be a perfect example for man, and the force and the power of this part of Christ's humiliation, which is the most eventful, is no instruction or help to human beings. {16MR 182.3}

Arnold, thank you. You have correctly summarized what I believe about Jesus' sinful flesh nature - "Jesus had the same holy nature that converted Adam did". More accurately, though, I believe Jesus had the same "transformed, renewed, regenerated, refined, purified, ennobled, vitalized nature" born-again believers receive when they experience conversion in God's appointed way. It is this "new nature" that enabled Jesus and enables Christians to partake of the divine nature, resist temptations, grow in grace, and mature daily in the fruits of the Spirit.

The questions is - Do you believe the "transformed, renewed, regenerated, refined, purified, ennobled, vitalized nature" tempts to indulge innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways?

Jones said this:

Was he only talking to those who were NOT corrupted?

What about those of us who have been corrupted, having "received the words of Satan in the place of the words of God" in our past experience? Is there a particle of difference between our human nature and Christ's?

Yes. Even Adam's sinless nature was tempted to "indulge innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways."

But the action of the flesh, whatever it may be, does not constitute sin. The flesh, of itself, cannot sin. Sin happens in the mind and heart, thoughts and feelings - character. So when Adam ate the fruit, neither the eating nor the fruit was sinful. The crux of his sin was distrust of God's love, which often leads to disbelief of God's word, which usually manifests itself as disobedience of God's command. So, long before Adam took a bite, he had already fallen.

Anyway, getting back to innocent and legitimate needs, it is true that "transformed, renewed, regenerated, refined, purified, ennobled, vitalized nature" has those. But they can only be sinful if/when the mind and heart are involved. Actually, the same can be said of fallen flesh. Sin is a function of the character. And when the character is like Christ's, sin is repulsive.

Except, that is goes against scripture, which says, "in the day you eat", not "in the day you think". Had Adam never eaten the fruit, he would have never fallen. If Eve was holding the fruit, and Adam came along and stopped Eve and she did not eat it, she would not have fallen. The prohibition was "do not eat", it was not "do not think". Christ developed a perfect character in sinful flesh, a much harder thing to do that was Adam tasked to do. While Christ had sinful flesh (flesh full of sin), He never participated in it! He was spotless! In this life, we will not have perfection of the flesh, but we can have perfection of character.

He took upon His sinless nature our sinful nature, that He might know how to succor those that are tempted. {MM 181.3}

We are compassed with the infirmities of humanity. So also was Christ. That He might by His own example condemn sin in the flesh, He took upon Himself the likeness of sinful flesh.--Ms 125, 1901, p. 14. {17MR 28.2}

He took the nature of man, with all its possibilities. We have nothing to endure that He has not endured. . . . Adam had the advantage over Christ, in that when he was assailed by the tempter, none of the effects of sin were upon him. He stood in the strength of perfect manhood, possessing the full vigor of mind and body. He was surrounded with the glories of Eden, and was in daily communion with heavenly beings. It was not thus with Jesus when He entered the wilderness to cope with Satan. For four thousand years the race had been decreasing in physical strength, in mental power, in moral worth; and Christ took upon Him the infirmities of degenerate humanity. Only thus could He rescue man from the lowest depths of degradation.--Ms. 113, 1902, pp. 1, 2 (See DA 117). {17MR 28.4}

Christ assumed our fallen nature, and was subject to every temptation to which man is subject. {2SAT 235.1}

He took upon His sinless nature our sinful nature, that He might know how to succor those that are tempted. {MM 181.3}

We are compassed with the infirmities of humanity. So also was Christ. That He might by His own example condemn sin in the flesh, He took upon Himself the likeness of sinful flesh.--Ms 125, 1901, p. 14. {17MR 28.2}

He took the nature of man, with all its possibilities. We have nothing to endure that He has not endured. . . . Adam had the advantage over Christ, in that when he was assailed by the tempter, none of the effects of sin were upon him. He stood in the strength of perfect manhood, possessing the full vigor of mind and body. He was surrounded with the glories of Eden, and was in daily communion with heavenly beings. It was not thus with Jesus when He entered the wilderness to cope with Satan. For four thousand years the race had been decreasing in physical strength, in mental power, in moral worth; and Christ took upon Him the infirmities of degenerate humanity. Only thus could He rescue man from the lowest depths of degradation.--Ms. 113, 1902, pp. 1, 2 (See DA 117). {17MR 28.4}

Christ assumed our fallen nature, and was subject to every temptation to which man is subject. {2SAT 235.1}

The Scriptures teach us to seek for the sanctification to God of body, soul, and spirit. In this work we are to be laborers together with God. Much may be done to restore the moral image of God in man, to improve the physical, mental, and moral capabilities. Great changes can be made in the physical system by obeying the laws of God and bringing into the body nothing that defiles. And while we cannot claim perfection of the flesh, we may have Christian perfection of the soul. {2SM 32.3}

Amen. I agree sinful flesh nature cannot commit a sin. Sin is the stuff of choice and character. Jesus implants His nature in us when we experience conversion in God's appointed way. Note:


"It is the privilege of every believer in Christ to possess Christ's nature, a nature far above that which Adam forfeited by transgression." {UL 18.3} Does this nature tempt to indulge innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways?