If you truly think about it, the act of disobeying and EATING the forbidden fruit betrayed everyone in history.

Satan used Adam to commit the murder of Christ.

"Adam was driven from Eden, and the angels who, before his transgression, had been appointed to guard him in his Eden home, were now appointed to guard the gates of paradise and the way of the tree of life, lest he should return, gain access to the tree of life, and sin be immortalized." {Con 15.2}

Adam had angels as his body guards, created perfect in stature, and all the blessings an unfallen man in probation could ever want. From there Adam fell, so fallen man is disconected in the covcering of light, the innocence of Christ reflected in his eyes was gone. This can only be re-established through acceptance of the sacrifice of the lamb. The whole universe was torn by Adams sin. He was the high priest of the human family. The head elder of our tribe. Satan was let loose in our realm and we became his subjects until the sacrifice.

"None of the apostles and prophets ever claimed to be without sin. Men who have lived the nearest to God, men who would sacrifice life itself rather than knowingly commit a wrong act, men whom God has honored with divine light and power, have confessed the sinfulness of their nature. They have put no confidence in the flesh, have claimed no righteousness of their own, but have trusted wholly in the righteousness of Christ." {AA 561.1}

(who is in the most Holy place cleansing us and our record from sin when we submit to His authority and love)

"The sanctification of the soul by the working of the Holy Spirit is the implanting of Christ’s nature in humanity. Gospel religion is Christ in the life—a living, active principle. It is the grace of Christ revealed in character and wrought out in good works. The principles of the gospel cannot be disconnected from any department of practical life. Every line of Christian experience and labor is to be a representation of the life of Christ." {COL 384.1}

I agree. But by the fact that you say the thought could have been forgiven, you admit that there had been a sin. And this is true. Coveting (desiring what God has forbidden) is a transgression of the 10th commandment. However, it would not have been a willful sin. A fall presupposes a willful sin.
In the same way, Lucifer could have been forgiven of his sin before his fall, which occurred at the moment he willfully chose to break God's law.

I agree, as explained above. But there is a distinction between sin and fall.

You are being harsh, James Son of Thunder. Neither Arnold nor I believe "the lie". Your view of "sinful flesh" does not correspond with the following inspired insights:


The flesh works in and through us tempting us to sin. The lusts and affections of the flesh are sinful. But the flesh cannot commit a sin. It can only tempt us to sin. The flesh is not the bone and blood and body.

Let me say it another way: No eating, not transgression. No transgress, no sin. Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the fruit of which he had been forbidden to touch. This was his test. He failed, and his transgression opened the floodgates of woe upon our world. {MM 233.5}

He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made "in the likeness of sinful flesh" (Romans 8:3), He lived a sinless life. {DA 311.5}

People are converted with Christ's nature. They possess His nature. Does this nature tempt us from within to sin?

We are born "in the flesh" in this world. Not one person was ever born in the Spirit in this world except Christ.

Our fallen brains is THE FLESH.

"How can the carnal mind harmonize with the mind that is assimilated to the mind of Christ? One is sowing to the flesh, thinking and acting in accordance with the promptings of his own heart; the other is sowing to the Spirit, seeking to repress selfishness, to overcome inclination, and to live in obedience to the Master, whose servant he professes to be. Thus there is a perpetual difference of taste, of inclination, and of purpose. Unless the believer shall, through his steadfast adherence to principle, win the impenitent, he will, as is much more common, become discouraged and sell his religious principles for the poor companionship of one who has no connection with Heaven.4 {AH 84.1}

"Jesus continued: “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” By nature the heart is evil, and “who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.” Job 14:4. No human invention can find a remedy for the sinning soul. “The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” “Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.” Romans 8:7; Matthew 15:19. The fountain of the heart must be purified before the streams can become pure. He who is trying to reach heaven by his own works in keeping the law is attempting an impossibility. There is no safety for one who has merely a legal religion, a form of godliness. The Christian’s life is not a modification or improvement of the old, but a transformation of nature. There is a death to self and sin, and a new life altogether. This change can be brought about only by the effectual working of the Holy Spirit.. {DA 172.1}

M&M you said "The flesh works in and through us tempting us to sin. The lusts and affections of the flesh are sinful. But the flesh cannot commit a sin. It can only tempt us to sin. The flesh is not the bone and blood and body.

You have fallen for the lie.

We are flesh when we are born in this cut off world. Our minds are the controller of our body, so it is the biggest part of the flesh.

Brother, I don't want to be harsh, but you need to realize and submit to the authority of truth when it is presented to you without so much argument. You are wrong, can you deal with it?

Peace.