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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159251
12/15/13 07:31 PM
12/15/13 07:31 PM
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Banned
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Active Member 2015
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Posts: 3,613
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It's like you are saying that God did evil in telling them to destroy the Canaanites.
God wanted them to be happy so he gave them instructions in how to kill the canaanites? It was against His will but he let them do it? What kind of wishy washy God do you think we serve?
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#159261
12/16/13 03:03 AM
12/16/13 03:03 AM
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A: I have stated my position. What do you not understand?
M: You have repeatedly stated that Jesus commanded His chosen people, through Moses, Joshua, and the Judges, to attack the Canaanites and to kill every man, women, and child with the edge of the sword. I have repeatedly asked you to post the texts where Jesus said so. So far you have not. You have rejected the texts I posted.
A: You repeated do not understand what I have said. It was not God's plan that the people fight their way into Canaan and more that they were required to fight their way out of Egypt. The land was given to them as a gift. But the disbelieved God! The did not go in and possess the land as God had commanded. Then in continued violation, they tried to go fight and failed miserably. IF they had followed God's plan, they would not have needed to fight nor were the Canaanites necessarily needed to be killed. God was to drive them out slowly, not in one year, etc... as Scripture says. But the people did not follow God. Did God abandon them? Nope. God still gave them instructions in how to fight using THEIR chosen methods. Just as God gave them instructions in how to manage divorce and polygamy. War God hates. Divorce God hates. Polygamy God hates. It was only God meeting the people where they were that God gave them these instructions, which also does not lead to eternal life. They needed to see God as He really was. Some got it, most did not. Christ ultimately came and gave a true view of God's character. Jesus's life is the answer to the real truth about what God is like. Where in the Bible does it say what you believe? You have repeatedly stated that Jesus commanded His chosen people, through Moses, Joshua, and the Judges, to attack the Canaanites and to kill every man, women, and child with the edge of the sword. I have repeatedly asked you to post the texts where Jesus said so. So far you have not. Where in the Bible does Jesus command Moses, Joshua, and the Judges to attack and kill every man, women, and child in the Promised Land? I have NEVER said that the people were to kill EVERY man, women and child in the Promised Land. There were battles in which they were to kill everything that breaths! This included animals!
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: APL]
#159268
12/16/13 02:42 PM
12/16/13 02:42 PM
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How about you James. Do you believe in right and wrong? That is, do you believe certain acts are wrong no matter who does them? Or are you one who believes that there are no right and wrong acts, but only determined by who does them as to whether they are right or wrong?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: kland]
#159272
12/16/13 05:08 PM
12/16/13 05:08 PM
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There were battles in which they were to kill everything that breaths! This included animals! Where in the Bible did Jesus command His chosen people to kill everything that breathes?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#159273
12/16/13 05:15 PM
12/16/13 05:15 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
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There were battles in which they were to kill everything that breaths! This included animals! Where in the Bible did Jesus command His chosen people to kill everything that breathes? IF you are speaking about the NT, then no. And yes, I do believe that God as revealed by Christ is the clearest evidence of what God is like. And yes, I do not believe that is was God's desire that Israel to ever take the promised land by force. And no, Jesus never killed anyone, see {CTr 248.4} and {CTr 322.2}. God's methods are NOT those used by the Israelites most of the time.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#159274
12/16/13 05:26 PM
12/16/13 05:26 PM
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SDA
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Kland, is it right to obey Jesus?
Deuteronomy
13:12 If thou shalt hear [say] in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,
13:13 [Certain] men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;
13:14 Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, [if it be] truth, [and] the thing certain, [that] such abomination is wrought among you;
13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that [is] therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
13:16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
13:17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;
13:18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do [that which is] right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: APL]
#159275
12/16/13 05:31 PM
12/16/13 05:31 PM
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SDA
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Posts: 22,256
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M: Where in the Bible did Jesus command His chosen people to kill everything that breathes?
A: IF you are speaking about the NT, then no. And yes, I do believe that God as revealed by Christ is the clearest evidence of what God is like. And yes, I do not believe that is was God's desire that Israel to ever take the promised land by force. And no, Jesus never killed anyone, see {CTr 248.4} and {CTr 322.2}. God's methods are NOT those used by the Israelites most of the time. Did you really, truly not honor my request? This is like the 5th time you have refused to honor my request.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#159279
12/16/13 06:25 PM
12/16/13 06:25 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
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M: Where in the Bible did Jesus command His chosen people to kill everything that breathes?
A: IF you are speaking about the NT, then no. And yes, I do believe that God as revealed by Christ is the clearest evidence of what God is like. And yes, I do not believe that is was God's desire that Israel to ever take the promised land by force. And no, Jesus never killed anyone, see {CTr 248.4} and {CTr 322.2}. God's methods are NOT those used by the Israelites most of the time. Did you really, truly not honor my request? This is like the 5th time you have refused to honor my request. OK. I assure you, it is not personal...
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: kland]
#159280
12/16/13 06:39 PM
12/16/13 06:39 PM
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How about you James. Do you believe in right and wrong? That is, do you believe certain acts are wrong no matter who does them? Or are you one who believes that there are no right and wrong acts, but only determined by who does them as to whether they are right or wrong? I prayed about this subject three times. Every time my mind is lead to the disobedience of Adam. I believe that the execution of justice is still righteousness. It is not the fault of God that we chose to sin. He cannot permit sin to endure or it would detsroy everything. When God said "in the day you eat of it you shall surely die" it was not a wicked thing for God to do. He gave every way of righteousness to be fulfilled. If Adam had refused to submit to the authority of God and instead refused to repent, that day the same angel that protected him in the garden would have been commissioned to destroy Adam. That is a righteous fact. The same angel who helped Adam in the garden was who barred him from the tree of life. This is a mortal death sentence. In the future, at the second resurrection that angel will be moved from his post and enjoy the fruit with Adam. In this event is everything you need to see the righteousness of God in what you are questioning. I am assured of this for you.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159281
12/16/13 06:52 PM
12/16/13 06:52 PM
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Banned
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Posts: 3,613
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Adam was created under probation... most people who question the righteousness of the execution of justice do not comprehend this point.
All the unfallen worlds still have the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden to contend with, with demons taunting them to sin. They are still under probation like Adam was.
Adam was tested before he could be permitted to fully enter into the presence of the Father. He fell and this cut us off from God's presence. Jesus came into a fallen world to rescue us, He could have failed and been destroyed with us if He sinned.
Jesus restored life to this planet. Everyone else who rejects Him are marked for the second death which concludes with fire from the Father which will not burn out until every sin has been paid for.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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