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Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: APL] #159124
12/09/13 05:07 PM
12/09/13 05:07 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: green
I didn't change the subject, I added to the subject.
LOL. I'll add that to my Greenisms.
I didn't change my socks, I replaced them.
The weather didn't change, it only became snowy.
You don't have to change your doctor, you only have to get a new one.

biglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaughbiglaugh

"Blessings"

Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: APL] #159126
12/09/13 06:12 PM
12/09/13 06:12 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Originally Posted By: APL
[quote=rick]Never thought about that, but yes, they are creating or taking out doctrines by footnotes, not keeping the words given by inspiration.
And EGW often quoted from the marginal notes. Why? Why not quote the "inspired" words?

Is it not interesting that EGW on a number of occasions corrected the KJV? Places in the book of Daniel being one. John 12:32 being another. The KJV reads, John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. Red being the words of Christ, and grey italics being a word that is supplied by the translators. What? And uninspired word in the text? Yes. EGW does quote the this version and at times included the word "men", at least it is in the text of her writing. But when it really counted, she did NOT quote the word.

"Now is the judgment of this world," Christ continued; "now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto Me. This He said, signifying what death He should die." This is the crisis of the world. If I become the propitiation for the sins of men, the world will be lighted up. Satan's hold upon the souls of men will be broken. The defaced image of God will be restored in humanity, and a family of believing saints will finally inherit the heavenly home. This is the result of Christ's death. The Saviour is lost in contemplation of the scene of triumph called up before Him. He sees the cross, the cruel, ignominious cross, with all its attending horrors, blazing with glory. {DA 625.4}

But the work of human redemption is not all that is accomplished by the cross. The love of God is manifested to the universe. The prince of this world is cast out. The accusations which Satan has brought against God are refuted. The reproach which he has cast upon heaven is forever removed. Angels as well as men are drawn to the Redeemer. "I, if I be lifted up from the earth," He said, "will draw all unto Me." {DA 626.1}

The word MEN, is left out. It is not an inspired word. Does this negate the KJV? Not at all!
When it negates, diminishes or sets aside a core biblical truth, it is changing Gods Word and in my opinion not acceptable for those who truly spiritually see and hear and follow God.
Originally Posted By: APL
When it dims the truth to whose perception? Many times verses left out of modern versions, make no change overall as the same thought is expressed in other locations. And we are speaking about in this thread only ENGLISH. There are many many other languages. It is interesting that In the 1800's after publishing of the RV, that a number of Adventist writers pointed out the benefits of the changes, clearing up of the sense. EGW used the ASV and RV, and not once that I know of ever warn anyone about the newer versions. That is not to say to approach the subject with a blind eye, but also note that the KJV is also flawed in places.
Look at the text and see if the purpose is not clear, it is to change truth and core doctrines, but do it slowly, like the tale of the frog as they turned up the heat slowly........

Last edited by Rick H; 12/10/13 12:52 PM.
Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: kland] #159157
12/11/13 11:41 AM
12/11/13 11:41 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Then you have the changes in Acts:

2:30 "according to the flesh he would raise up Christ" is omitted. It was not just that one of David's descendants would sit upon the throne, but that his greater Son would be raised from the dead in a body of flesh.

2:47 "to the church" is left out. Believers are added to the Church which is Christ's body. The Church is an organism, and when persecutors touched the Church they touched Christ (see 9:5).

3:21 "all" is dropped in front of "his holy prophets." God has spoken of the Kingdom age by the mouth of ALL his prophets since the world began. In harmony with this Jesus spoke to the two on the road to Emmaus about himself from "all the prophets" (see Luke 24:27). There are others in the world who claim to be prophets but they do not speak of Jesus and his kingdom, therefore they are not of God.

3:26 "Jesus" is dropped. The specific name leaves no doubt as to whom God raised up from the dead to offer again the kingdom to Israel.

4:24 "thou art God" is changed to "thou art he who." There is no reason to accept MINORITY manuscripts when they want to change "God" to "he who" (see 1 Tim. 3:16).

6:3 The word "Holy" is dropped. When God led the Church to choose deacons he made it clear that they should be controlled by the Holy Spirit. Many churches since have appointed men who had a lot of spirit and were full of enthusiasm, but that is not the same as being full of the "Holy Ghost." Godly living is required of deacons and it is contrary to sound doctrine to leave out "Holy." The Greek word for spirit can refer to man's spirit or God's spirit and lest we should err here God inserted the word "Holy" before spirit.

6:8 "faith" is changed to "grace." The Bible does not teach that Christians are full of grace but rather that they receive grace. The only one who was "full of grace" was our Lord Jesus Christ (see John 1:14). The measure of faith is given to every believer to profit thereby.

7:30 "of the Lord" is omitted. It was not just an angel that appeared to Moses at the burning bush, it was an angel of Jehovah (the Lord). This was an Old Testament appearance of the eternal Son of God in angelic form. In plain words it was the Lord who appeared to Moses (see Exodus 3:1-5).

7:37 "The Lord your" and "him shall ye hear" are omitted. This is contrary to the original quotation as found in Deut. 18:15. In Stephen's sermon the "him shall ye hear" is most important since those who refuse Christ's words will be judged by God.

8:18 "Holy" is dropped. Four times here in four verses the Holy Ghost is mentioned. To drop the word Holy in one out of the four times is to create confusion and doubt concerning the Word of God.

8:37 The whole verse is omitted. This leaves the question of the Ethiopian eunuch unanswered. Philip's answer is correct in that belief must be from the heart prior to baptism. The eunuch's confession of faith is in exact agreement with what is required for salvation as given in John 20:31. Souls have been led to Christ with this verse of Scripture and it is doctrinally unsound to remove it.

9:5,6 "it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him" is all omitted. This passage gives us a picture of Saul resisting the Spirit of God as he was under conviction. Saul's response is to submit to the Lord's direction, having been humbled before the Lord. Without Saul's "what wilt thou have me to do?" there could be no "arise and go."

9:29 "Jesus" is left out. The reason the Jews went about to slay Saul was not because he spake boldly in the name of the Lord, but because he spoke of the Lord Jesus.

10:6 "he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do" is left out. The truth is that Cornelius was not saved (see 11:14) and that there was something which he had to do. He must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

10:30 "fasting" is left out. Fasting, to find the will of God, is a Biblical doctrine.

10:32 "who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee" is omitted.

15:24 "Ye must be circumcised and keep the law" is left out. This is exactly the reason why the Jerusalem council was called or convened. There is no doubt that the reply to the Gentile converts made mention of the all important question.

16:31 "Christ" is omitted. The word speaks of the Deity of Christ. It pointed the Philippian jailer to the God he must believe in for salvation.

18:5 "was pressed in the Spirit" is changed to "was engrossed with the word." When Paul was teaching he was always engrossed with the Word. In Corinth Paul had been laying the groundwork at the synagogue concerning what the Scriptures had to say about their Messiah (Christ). When Silas and Timothy came, Paul was under compulsion to show that Jesus was the Christ.

19:10 "Jesus" is left out. For the heathen to hear about the Lord is not enough. They must hear that Jesus is that Lord.

20:28 "of God" is changed to "of the Lord." The word lord is sometimes used of men and sometimes of God. Therefore, the change does not affirm the Deity of Christ.

21:25 "they observe no such thing, save only that" is omitted.

26:28 "almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" is changed to "do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?" King Agrippa was "almost persuaded" and he was in possession of the truth concerning salvation. The change would have us believe that he needed more information and perhaps Paul was too quick to expect a decision.

Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Rick H] #159162
12/11/13 03:04 PM
12/11/13 03:04 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Why not follow your own advice, Rick?

Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: kland] #159164
12/11/13 03:58 PM
12/11/13 03:58 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Are you asking the Greek and Hebrew text to compare, might get deep.

Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Rick H] #159175
12/12/13 04:02 PM
12/12/13 04:02 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,509
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Why not be deep, rather than shallow?

Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: kland] #159256
12/15/13 10:35 PM
12/15/13 10:35 PM
Daryl  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
What about the RC's Jerusalem Bible where their change of the Ten Commandments is written down?

Daniel warned us about that change.
Quote:
Daniel 7:25 KJV And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Daryl] #159266
12/16/13 01:32 PM
12/16/13 01:32 PM
K
kland  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,509
Midland
What was their change of the Ten Commandments? Could you list it?

Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: kland] #159289
12/17/13 10:43 AM
12/17/13 10:43 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Florida, USA
If you look in the NIV, you will find it has taken out something that clearly changes understanding, as it takes out a key name, Lucifer, for this term for Satan does not appear on its pages. The only reference to the name of the one who led the revolt against God is found in the King James Bible in Isaiah 14:12. The referenced Scripture, and the verses following, have always been identified with the fall of Satan, and the names Lucifer and Satan have become synonymous and is the same as the one Jesus described in Luke 10:18 where He said, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

Now the name that the NIV has substituted in the place of Lucifer is interesting, as this is doctrinal and has far reaching effects on the credibility and reliability of the NIV as a Christian Bible. Looking at the Scripture below you will see the morning star is identified as the one who fell from heaven. A brief look at the referenced Scripture will clearly verify the doctrinal differences between the two.

New International Version

Isaiah 14:12-15 (NIV) " How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit.


Isaiah 14:12-15
King James Version (KJV)
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Lets look at several references in both the NIV and the KJV where these terms are used together.

New International Version

2 Pet 1:19 (NIV)

"And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts."

Rev 2:28 (NIV)

"I will also give him the morning star."

Rev 22:16 (NIV)

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."




King James Version (KJV)

Revelation 2:28
28 And I will give him the morning star.



Revelation 22:16
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


Does anyone see any problem with the NIV here. Well if a person is to accept the NIV as the Word of God, then he or she must also accept that it was Jesus who was cast from heaven in the event described in Isaiah 14:12. Hmmm.....

Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Rick H] #159291
12/17/13 02:25 PM
12/17/13 02:25 PM
APL  Offline
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Morning star is an acceptible translation. And it does not destroy doctrine, but shows how really exalted the fallen one was!
Isaiah 14:12 HowH349 are you fallenH5307 from heaven,H4480 H8064 O Lucifer,H1966 sonH1121 of the morning!H7837 how are you cut downH1438 to the ground,H776 which did weakenH2522 H5921 the nations!H1471

H7837
- Original: הילל
- Transliteration: heylel
- Phonetic: hay-lale'
- Definition: Lucifer = light-bearer
1. shining one, morning star, Lucifer
a. of the king of Babylon and Satan (fig.)
2. (TWOT) 'Helel' describing the king of Babylon
- Origin: from [url=tw://[self]?H1984]H1984[/url] (in the sense of brightness)
- TWOT entry: 499a
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Masculine

- Strong's: From [url=tw://[self]?H1984]H1984[/url] (in the sense of brightness); the morning star: - lucifer.
Total KJV Occurrences: 1
Lucifer, 1
Isa_14:12


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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