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Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions
[Re: APL]
#159292
12/17/13 02:36 PM
12/17/13 02:36 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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APL,
"Morning star" refers to Jesus. It is one of His titles. It is one which He gives Himself. As it says in Revelation, quoting Jesus, "I AM ... the bright and morning star."
To find a verse in that Bible which speaks of the "morning star" and then further elaborates regarding how said star fell is to find a serious blasphemy. Jesus never fell!
The NIV translation is not too far different from some of our modern songs which like to imply that Jesus fell, such as the popular song "Above All." But Jesus never "took the fall" and He was certainly not "trampled." Genesis 3:15 tells us who was going to be stepped on, and it wasn't Jesus!
Lucifer may have been a son of God, but He wasn't the morning star, i.e. the "sun," aka "greater light." That Fount of light is Jesus' place alone. Therefore, the NIV has some serious error in its rendition of that verse.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#159293
12/17/13 03:24 PM
12/17/13 03:24 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Green, Morning Star was also a title of Satan before his fall. He was the covering cherub. Second only to Christ. Thus producing something called, the great controversy.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions
[Re: APL]
#159294
12/17/13 03:27 PM
12/17/13 03:27 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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Green, Morning Star was also a title of Satan before his fall. He was the covering cherub. Second only to Christ. Thus producing something called, the great controversy. Where is your evidence for this? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#159295
12/17/13 03:34 PM
12/17/13 03:34 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Considering the Bible calls Jesus the "Morning Star," and we want to have Jesus in our lives, it is blasphemous for the NIV translators to presume to give this title to Jesus' enemy. I want Jesus. I do not want Lucifer in my life. "He that overcometh, . . . I will give him the Morning Star," "and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God: . . . and I will write upon him My new name." Verses 26-28; 3:12. {MH 516.3} Do you want to be given Satan, the Great Deceiver in place of Jesus Christ? Satan may try to present himself as Christ, but he can but be a false christ. The NIV translators have helped to present the Fallen One as though he were in the position of Christ, the light of the world. But Lucifer has never been a light to this world. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#159296
12/17/13 03:35 PM
12/17/13 03:35 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Evidence - - do I need to repeat my post above?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions
[Re: APL]
#159297
12/17/13 03:39 PM
12/17/13 03:39 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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APL,
I will not accept evidence from a purely human source. I need it from a Divine source. If we might question the translation quality of the NIV, then it should not come from there, nor from Bible commentaries which might put their own spin on things. Even the modern concordances have begun changing definitions for these things. As there is no issue with translation of Mrs. White's writings, use her. She wrote in plain English. Give me something from her pen that supports your assertion.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#159298
12/17/13 03:40 PM
12/17/13 03:40 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Considering the Bible calls Jesus the "Morning Star," and we want to have Jesus in our lives, it is blasphemous for the NIV translators to presume to give this title to Jesus' enemy. I want Jesus. I do not want Lucifer in my life. "He that overcometh, . . . I will give him the Morning Star," "and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God: . . . and I will write upon him My new name." Verses 26-28; 3:12. {MH 516.3} Do you want to be given Satan, the Great Deceiver in place of Jesus Christ? Satan may try to present himself as Christ, but he can but be a false christ. The NIV translators have helped to present the Fallen One as though he were in the position of Christ, the light of the world. But Lucifer has never been a light to this world. Blessings, Green Cochoa. Green - did the great controversy start on this world? NO. Satan is not the light of this world, this is true. But does not your point prove. Does it surprise you that there is more than one morning star???
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#159299
12/17/13 03:45 PM
12/17/13 03:45 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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I see Mrs. White as clearly speaking of Christ, and only of Christ, as the bright and morning star. I have not seen her referring to Satan or Lucifer in this manner. In fact, we can expect that Jesus' position as the Morning Star will be undermined by the devil, because this is one of the last truths for the world to be proclaimed in the third angel's message. The truths of the third angel's message have been presented by some as a dry theory; but in this message is to be presented Christ the Living One. He is to be revealed as the first and the last, as the I AM, the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright and morning Star. Through this message the character of God in Christ is to be manifested to the world. The call is to be sounded: "O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him: behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him. He shall feed His flock like a shepherd: He shall gather the lambs with His arm, and carry them in His bosom." Isaiah 40:9-11. {6T 20.1}
Now, with John the Baptist, we are to point men to Jesus, saying: "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. Now as never before is to be sounded the invitation: "If any man thirst, let him come unto Me, and drink." "The Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." John 7:37; Revelation 22:17. {6T 20.2}
There is a great work to be done, and every effort possible must be made to reveal Christ as the sin-pardoning Saviour, Christ as the Sin Bearer, Christ as the bright and morning Star; and the Lord will give us favor before the world until our work is done.
- {6T 20.3} Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#159300
12/17/13 03:47 PM
12/17/13 03:47 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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The perils of the last days are upon us, and in our work we are to warn the people of the danger they are in. Let not the solemn scenes which prophecy has revealed be left untouched. If our people were half awake, if they realized the nearness of the events portrayed in the Revelation, a reformation would be wrought in our churches, and many more would believe the message. We have no time to lose; God calls upon us to watch for souls as they that must give an account. Advance new principles, and crowd in the clear-cut truth. It will be as a sword cutting both ways. But be not too ready to take a controversial attitude. There will be times when we must stand still and see the salvation of God. Let Daniel speak, let the Revelation speak, and tell what is truth. But whatever phase of the subject is presented, uplift Jesus as the center of all hope, "the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright and morning Star.'' Revelation 22:16. {6T 61.4} Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#159301
12/17/13 03:59 PM
12/17/13 03:59 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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There is no undermining of Christ's true position. Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Hm - "morning stars", pleural? Yes.
What does "Lucifer" mean? LIGHT BEARER. Does this surprise you??? This was Satan before his fall, the light bearer.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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