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Re: Did Christ have sinful tendencies? How does EGW use the word propensities? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #159311
12/17/13 07:27 PM
12/17/13 07:27 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Posts: 3,613
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The reason what you are saying is dangerous is because it leads people to believe that the soul is seperate from the body, but that is the lie that leads to believing in disembodied spirits or ghosts.

You perfectly delineated the argument Catholics have about "the flesh" to support their idea that the soul seperates from the body at death. LIES!


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Did Christ have sinful tendencies? How does EGW use the word propensities? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #159312
12/17/13 07:34 PM
12/17/13 07:34 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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“You, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath He reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblamable and unreprovable in His sight.” Colossians 1:21, 22. {CT 152.2}

"In the Word of God the honest seeker for truth will find the rule for genuine sanctification. The apostle says: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.... For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh; that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you” (Romans 8:1-9). {FW 97.2}

The flesh has dominion at birth because it is US. We are born flesh and blood without God. That is the flesh. All of our propensities aree selfishness at birth. It takes a relationship with Jesus to even know that our flesh is condemned.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Did Christ have sinful tendencies? How does EGW use the word propensities? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #159313
12/17/13 07:45 PM
12/17/13 07:45 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Posts: 3,613
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"This is a most valuable study, taxing the intellect, and giving strength to the mental ability. After diligently searching the word, hidden treasures are discovered, and the lover of truth breaks out in triumph, “Without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” {FE 444.2}

The only time we are not in "the flesh" is when we are in the mind of Jesus, who is God in the form of sinful flesh, but He was never disconnected from God except for the sacrifice.

We are born disconnected, Jesus wasn't. This is how He was born the second Adam.

He gave the connection with His Father up as a sacrifice to experience exactly what we would durring the second death. He walked in our shoes before the wrath of the Father And still He did not sin.

Meditating on this brings us into the mind of Christ, this is the walking in the Spirit that the Gospels speak so much about.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Did Christ have sinful tendencies? How does EGW use the word propensities? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #159314
12/17/13 07:48 PM
12/17/13 07:48 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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When Enoch "walked with God and was no more" he was so submitted to the glory of God that he no longer dwelled in the flesh but was completely submitted to the Spirit and this prepared him to come before God without having experienced death. Just like the 144,000.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Did Christ have sinful tendencies? How does EGW use the word propensities? [Re: APL] #159315
12/17/13 10:27 PM
12/17/13 10:27 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
The distrust LED to the fall, it was not the fall.

I agree, as explained above. But there is a distinction between sin and fall.
Let me say it another way: No eating, not transgression. No transgress, no sin. Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the fruit of which he had been forbidden to touch. This was his test. He failed, and his transgression opened the floodgates of woe upon our world. {MM 233.5}

Of course I disagree. She obviously coveted the fruit before eating it. And, as far as I know, coveting is a sin.

Eve coveted the thing God had forbidden. She revealed a distrust of God and His goodness, and a desire to be independent and do as she thought best. {CTr 22.4}

Re: Did Christ have sinful tendencies? How does EGW use the word propensities? [Re: Rosangela] #159324
12/18/13 04:17 AM
12/18/13 04:17 AM
APL  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
The distrust LED to the fall, it was not the fall.

I agree, as explained above. But there is a distinction between sin and fall.
Let me say it another way: No eating, not transgression. No transgress, no sin. Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the fruit of which he had been forbidden to touch. This was his test. He failed, and his transgression opened the floodgates of woe upon our world. {MM 233.5}

Of course I disagree. She obviously coveted the fruit before eating it. And, as far as I know, coveting is a sin.

Eve coveted the thing God had forbidden. She revealed a distrust of God and His goodness, and a desire to be independent and do as she thought best. {CTr 22.4}


You may disagree, but scripture says the prohibition was EATING the fruit. Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.

That's it. The only prohibition.

Adam understood that his companion had transgressed the command of God, disregarded the only prohibition laid upon them as a test of their fidelity and love. There was a terrible struggle in his mind. He mourned that he had permitted Eve to wander from his side. But now the deed was done; he must be separated from her whose society had been his joy. How could he have it thus? Adam had enjoyed the companionship of God and of holy angels. He had looked upon the glory of the Creator. He understood the high destiny opened to the human race should they remain faithful to God. Yet all these blessings were lost sight of in the fear of losing that one gift which in his eyes outvalued every other. Love, gratitude, loyalty to the Creator--all were overborne by love to Eve. She was a part of himself, and he could not endure the thought of separation. He did not realize that the same Infinite Power who had from the dust of the earth created him, a living, beautiful form, and had in love given him a companion, could supply her place. He resolved to share her fate; if she must die, he would die with her. After all, he reasoned, might not the words of the wise serpent be true? Eve was before him, as beautiful and apparently as innocent as before this act of disobedience. She expressed greater love for him than before. No sign of death appeared in her, and he decided to brave the consequences. He seized the fruit and quickly ate. {PP 56.2} ᔀ


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Did Christ have sinful tendencies? How does EGW use the word propensities? [Re: APL] #159327
12/18/13 04:35 AM
12/18/13 04:35 AM
asygo  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,607
California, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo
So when Adam ate the fruit, neither the eating nor the fruit was sinful.
Except, that is goes against scripture, which says, "in the day you eat", not "in the day you think".

If you look at a woman lustfully, you've already done it in your heart. Don't you think that also works with fruit?

Sin has to do with character, not food and drink.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Did Christ have sinful tendencies? How does EGW use the word propensities? [Re: Mountain Man] #159328
12/18/13 04:39 AM
12/18/13 04:39 AM
asygo  Offline
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Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,607
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
"It is the privilege of every believer in Christ to possess Christ's nature, a nature far above that which Adam forfeited by transgression." {UL 18.3} Does this nature tempt to indulge innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways?

It can, but not inherently. Satan can still tempt it.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Did Christ have sinful tendencies? How does EGW use the word propensities? [Re: Rosangela] #159329
12/18/13 04:52 AM
12/18/13 04:52 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,607
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
It was distrust of God's goodness, disbelief of His word, and rejection of His authority, that made our first parents transgressors... {Ed 25.2}

Exactly.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Did Christ have sinful tendencies? How does EGW use the word propensities? [Re: asygo] #159330
12/18/13 04:55 AM
12/18/13 04:55 AM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo
So when Adam ate the fruit, neither the eating nor the fruit was sinful.
Except, that is goes against scripture, which says, "in the day you eat", not "in the day you think".

If you look at a woman lustfully, you've already done it in your heart. Don't you think that also works with fruit?

Sin has to do with character, not food and drink.


Sin had to do with character... The definition of sin, is transgression of the law. What was the law as given in Eden to Adam? Not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. After eating it, their nature was corrupted. The 10 commandments were added because of transgression. What transgression was that for Adam? Eating the fruit.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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