I agree A&E did not sin until after they ate the forbidden fruit.

Also, Lucifer was not guilty of sinning until the moment Jesus cast him down to earth. "But no provision had been made to save those [angels] who should venture to transgress his law." {1SP 22.3} They were lost the instant they sinned.

Hebrews
6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

This principle applied to the angels who rebelled in heaven. There was no hope for them once they sinned. They knew Jesus too well to return their allegiance once they surrendered it. There was nothing more Jesus could recommend. Their first sin was permanent and unpardonable. The same thing would have applied to A&E after a few thousands years of loving service.

What is the one thing angels were privy to that Adam wasn't before the fall?

Creation.

Adam was created after the creation of heaven and earth, he had to take God for His word. The angels saw every phase of creation fulfilled after their creation.

Satan had no excuse, because he had seen the deepest counsels of God. Created complete in the image of God, Lucifer was the ultimate angelic power.

Until Jesus went into the glory of the Father in front of all the angels three times, I believe Lucifer thought Michael was his subordinate. When the Father announced that Jesus was actually His Son and the inheritor of everything, Satan began to covet the position of Jesus, laying the foundation for open rebellion.

It blew Lucifers mind that the angel across from him in the throne room of heaven was actually the creator. Michael in the north and Lucifer in the south. (Lucifer said in his heart "I will ascend above the side of the north".)

Jesus appears to the angels like an angel and to men as a man.

Jesus still appears as Michael (the commander of the angels) in heaven, but in the body of a man. The proof is in the book of Daniel. Chapter 12 is a future prophecy, and in it the word says "Then shall Michael your prince stand up". But this is after Jesus went to heaven in the body of a man. Wonderful details to fathom.

In that way Jesus is the healer of the rift between angels and men and God.

The idea that Lucifer sinned and Jesus offered to reinstate him without the shedding of His atoning blood overlooks or undermines the truth advocated in Hebrews 6 and 1SP 22 (quoted above). Similarly, the idea A&E sinned before they ate the forbidden fruit assumes Jesus would have forgiven them without the shedding of His atoning blood.

Mark 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

"But such efforts as infinite love and wisdom only could devise, were made to convince him of his error. His disaffection was proved to be without cause, and he was made to see what would be the result of persisting in revolt. Lucifer was convinced that he was in the wrong. He saw that “the Lord is righteous in all His ways, and holy in all His works” (Psalm 145:17); that the divine statutes are just, and that he ought to acknowledge them as such before all heaven. Had he done this, he might have saved himself and many angels (Just like Adam and Eve before eating the fruit). He had not at that time fully cast off his allegiance to God. Though he had left his position as covering cherub, yet if he had been willing to return to God, acknowledging the Creator’s wisdom, and satisfied to fill the place appointed him in God’s great plan, he would have been reinstated in his office. The time had come for a final decision; he must fully yield to the divine sovereignty or place himself in open rebellion. He nearly reached the decision to return, but pride forbade him. It was too great a sacrifice for one who had been so highly honored to confess that he had been in error, that his imaginings were false, and to yield to the authority which he had been working to prove unjust. {PP 39.1}


Lucifer was given the oportunity to RETURN to God before he was thrown out of heaven. If he had left God then he was sinning in his heart. It wasn't until Lucifer openly rebelled against the will of the Father that he was cast out.

I am beginning to believe that when Satan designed to murder Jesus was when it was the last straw.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

God the Father would have known Lucifer was not going to return to Him. But still every effort was made to reinstate him.

Lucifer was lying and this is breaking the commandment to not bear false witness. He was also coveting the position of Jesus and this is also breaking the commandments.

Coveting leads to murder. There is a degree of sinful behavior. Some sins are more grievous than others repented of.

The most destructive sins are those which destroy life.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

M&M the quote you used from 1 SP 22 was after Lucifer had lied to the other angels and said they were too far gone to repent. So in essence that is when he became Satan, the adversary. He was blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

"Many of Satan’s sympathizers were inclined to heed the counsel of the loyal angels, and repent of their dissatisfaction, and be again received to the confidence of the Father and his dear Son. The mighty revolter then declared that he was acquainted with God’s law, and if he should submit to servile obedience, his honor would be taken from him. No more would he be intrusted with his exalted mission. He told them that himself and they also had now gone too far to go back, and he would brave the consequences; for to bow in servile worship to the Son of God he never would; that God would not forgive, and now they must assert their liberty and gain by force the position and authority which was not willingly accorded to them. {1SP 20.2}

It was the highest crime to rebel against the government of God...

"He then declared that he was prepared to resist the authority of Christ, and to defend his place in Heaven by force of might, strength against strength. {1SP 22.2}
Good angels wept to hear the words of Satan, and his exulting boasts. God declared that the rebellious should remain in Heaven no longer. Their high and happy state had been held upon condition of obedience to the law which God had given to govern the high order of intelligences. But no provision had been made to save those who should venture to transgress his law.