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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159282
12/16/13 07:22 PM
12/16/13 07:22 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Do a study on the "lightning from heaven". In this study you will find all the direct judgments from the Father.
"This murmuring soon infected nearly the whole body of the people. At first, God did not gratify their lustful appetites, but caused His judgments to come upon them, and consumed the most guilty by lightning from heaven. Yet this, instead of humbling them, only seemed to increase their murmurings. {CD 376.1}
"At the ninth hour the darkness lifted from the people, but still enveloped the Saviour. It was a symbol of the agony and horror that weighed upon His heart. No eye could pierce the gloom that surrounded the cross, and none could penetrate the deeper gloom that enshrouded the suffering soul of Christ. The angry lightnings seemed to be hurled at Him as He hung upon the cross. Then “Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?” As the outer gloom settled about the Saviour, many voices exclaimed: The vengeance of heaven is upon Him. The bolts of God’s wrath are hurled at Him, because He claimed to be the Son of God. Many who believed on Him heard His despairing cry. Hope left them. If God had forsaken Jesus, in what could His followers trust? {DA 754.3}
"They had covenanted to obey His authority. Their murmuring was now rebellion, and as such it must receive prompt punishment if Israel was to be preserved from anarchy and ruin. “The fire of Jehovah burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp.” The most guilty of the complainers were slain by lightning from the cloud. {EP 265.1}
Either we accept the fires from heaven that consumed the sacrifice, or the fires consume the impenetant.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159283
12/16/13 07:57 PM
12/16/13 07:57 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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One more point to drive it home...
What is the lightning from heaven? Righteous angels doing the direct will of the Father...
"As God’s messengers they go forth, like “the appearance of a flash of lightning,” (Ezekiel 1:14), so dazzling their glory, and so swift their flight. The angel that appeared at the Saviour’s tomb, his countenance “like lightning, and his raiment white as snow,” caused the keepers for fear of him to quake, and they “became as dead men.” Matthew 28:3, 4. When Sennacherib, the haughty Assyrian, reproached and blasphemed God, and threatened Israel with destruction, “it came to pass that night, that the angel of the Lord went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand.” There were “cut off all the mighty men of valor, and the leaders and captains,” from the army of Sennacherib. “So he returned with shame of face to his own land.” 2 Kings 19:35; 2 Chronicles 32:21. {GC 511.3}
"then, suddenly as the lightning flashes from the heavens, will come the end of their bright visions and delusive hopes." {GC88 338.2}
At the flood ..."The people first beheld the destruction of the works of their own hands. Their splendid buildings, and the beautiful gardens and groves where they had placed their idols, were destroyed by lightning from heaven, and the ruins were scattered far and wide. The altars on which human sacrifices had been offered were torn down, and the worshipers were made to tremble at the power of the living God, and to know that it was their corruption and idolatry which had called down their destruction. {PP 99.2}
Angels flash forth from the cloud of glory to destroy the wicked at the second coming.
"The mysterious cloud changed to a pillar of fire before their astonished eyes. The thunders pealed and the lightnings flashed. “The clouds poured out water; the skies sent out a sound: Thine arrows also went abroad. The voice of Thy thunder was in the whirlwind; the lightning lightened the world: the earth trembled and shook.” Psalm 77:17, 18, R.V. {PP 287.3}
"No sooner is the prayer of Elijah ended than flames of fire, like brilliant flashes of lightning, descend from heaven upon the upreared altar, consuming the sacrifice, licking up the water in the trench, and consuming even the stones of the altar. The brilliancy of the blaze illumines the mountain and dazzles the eyes of the multitude. In the valleys below, where many are watching in anxious suspense the movements of those above, the descent of fire is clearly seen, and all are amazed at the sight. It resembles the pillar of fire which at the Red Sea separated the children of Israel from the Egyptian host. {PK 152.4}
"Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz. His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude” (Daniel 10:2-6). {SL 49.2}
—"Before the Son of man appears in the clouds of heaven, everything in nature will be convulsed. Lightning from heaven uniting with the fire in the earth, will cause the mountains to burn like a furnace, and pour out their floods of lava over villages and cities. Molten masses of rock, thrown into the water by the upheaval of things hidden in the earth, will cause the water to boil and send forth rocks and earth. There will be mighty earthquakes and great destruction of human life. But as in the days of the great Deluge Noah was preserved in the ark that God had prepared for him, so in these days of destruction and calamity, God will be the refuge of His believing ones ... [Psalm 91:9, 10; 27:5 quoted] (Letter 258, 1907). {7BC 946.7}
"But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false Christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image,—the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God’s unmingled wrath shall be poured out. And, furthermore, Satan is not permitted to counterfeit the manner of Christ’s advent. The Scriptures teach that “as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be;” [Matthew 24:27.] that he “cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him;” [Revelation 1:7.] that he will “descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God;” [1 Thessalonians 4:16.] that he will “come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him,” [Matthew 25:31.] and will “send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect.” [Matthew 24:31.] Those who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the testimony of the Scriptures they will detect the deceiver in his disguise. {4SP 443.1}
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159284
12/16/13 08:13 PM
12/16/13 08:13 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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"But Christ came suddenly into the temple courts; divinity flashed through humanity, and, raising a whip of small cords in his hands, with a voice that they will hear again in the execution of the judgment, he said, “Take these things hence.” “It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.” These priests and rulers saw as it were an avenging angel with a flaming sword, such as guarded the way to the tree of life. {SpTA07 54.1}
Meditate on this next righteous image and God will answer your prayer for understanding...
"While man lived near God, the altars were lighted by fire from heaven... each brought an offering to the gate of the garden (of Eden)... The lamb was laid upon the altar, and fire flashed from the shining sword of the cherubim guarding the way to the Tree of Life, and the sacrifice was consumed." {SDP 136.2}
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: APL]
#159286
12/17/13 12:01 AM
12/17/13 12:01 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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M: Did you really, truly not honor my request? This is like the 5th time you have refused to honor my request.
A: OK. I assure you, it is not personal... What?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#159341
12/18/13 03:44 PM
12/18/13 03:44 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,473
Midland
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Kland, is it right to obey Jesus?
What does your comment about obeying have to do with being able to determine the difference between right and wrong acts? Didn't people "obey" Hitler?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159342
12/18/13 03:51 PM
12/18/13 03:51 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Midland
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How about you James. Do you believe in right and wrong? That is, do you believe certain acts are wrong no matter who does them? Or are you one who believes that there are no right and wrong acts, but only determined by who does them as to whether they are right or wrong? I prayed about this subject three times. Every time my mind is lead to the disobedience of Adam. I believe that the execution of justice is still righteousness. It is not the fault of God that we chose to sin. He cannot permit sin to endure or it would detsroy everything. When God said "in the day you eat of it you shall surely die" it was not a wicked thing for God to do. He gave every way of righteousness to be fulfilled. If Adam had refused to submit to the authority of God and instead refused to repent, that day the same angel that protected him in the garden would have been commissioned to destroy Adam. That is a righteous fact. The same angel who helped Adam in the garden was who barred him from the tree of life. This is a mortal death sentence. In the future, at the second resurrection that angel will be moved from his post and enjoy the fruit with Adam. In this event is everything you need to see the righteousness of God in what you are questioning. I am assured of this for you. You said lots and over several posts. But sounds like you are agreeing with MM, that there are no wrong and right acts, that they are determined by the person doing them. Or perhaps you are making a Greenism, and saying wrong really is right.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: kland]
#159367
12/19/13 01:05 AM
12/19/13 01:05 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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M: Kland, is it right to obey Jesus?
Deuteronomy 13:12 If thou shalt hear [say] in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13:13 [Certain] men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 13:14 Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, [if it be] truth, [and] the thing certain, [that] such abomination is wrought among you; 13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that [is] therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 13:16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 13:17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 13:18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do [that which is] right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.
K: What does your comment about obeying have to do with being able to determine the difference between right and wrong acts? Didn't people "obey" Hitler? Jesus said, "do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God" "smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword". Killing with the edge of the sword was right. Jesus commanded it. Are you comparing obeying Jesus and obeying Hitler?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#159368
12/19/13 01:11 AM
12/19/13 01:11 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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"right and wrong acts . . . are determined by the person doing them. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. {LDE 241.2}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#159371
12/19/13 01:27 AM
12/19/13 01:27 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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"right and wrong acts . . . are determined by the person doing them. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. {LDE 241.2} Yes! And HOW does God do it? {GC 36.1}
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: APL]
#159373
12/19/13 01:33 AM
12/19/13 01:33 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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". . . God drowned the vast world." How? He used water. PP 90-104.
The depths of the earth are the Lord's arsenal, whence were drawn weapons to be employed in the destruction of the old world. Waters gushing from the earth united with the waters from heaven to accomplish the work of desolation. Since the Flood, fire as well as water has been God's agent to destroy very wicked cities. {PP 109.1}
The bowels of the earth were the Lord's arsenal, from which he drew forth the weapons he employed in the destruction of the old world. Waters in the bowels of the earth gushed forth, and united with the waters from heaven, to accomplish the work of destruction. Since the flood, God has used both water and fire in the earth as his agents to destroy wicked cities. {1SP 84.3}
As he called forth the waters in the earth at the time of the flood, as weapons from his arsenal to accomplish the destruction of the antediluvian race, so at the end of the one thousand years he will call forth the fires in the earth as his weapons which he has reserved for the final destruction, not only of successive generations since the flood, but the antediluvian race who perished by the flood. {3SG 87.1}
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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