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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159637
12/27/13 01:50 PM
12/27/13 01:50 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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"In the fields where the boy David had led his flock, shepherds were still keeping watch by night. Through the silent hours they talked together of the promised Saviour, and prayed for the coming of the King to David’s throne. “And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.” {DA 47.3}
Why is it that every time the angel of the Lord appears men fall to the ground in terror?
You do not know the glory of the Lord. Ah, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159638
12/27/13 02:56 PM
12/27/13 02:56 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,475
Midland
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Was Hitler using righteousness to accomplish his goal?
The fact that you persist in writing such a question down shows contempt. Contempt? Who, you? Of course God does not do the same thing as Hitler.
The motivations of God could never be compared. He has proven His love so perfectly that there is NO EXCUSE for sin.
The execution of judgment is in perfect righteousness, not in the satanic fury but in the righteous wrath of God against satanic fury.
Who died first? Able was killed by his own brother in the spirit of satanic fury. Did God destroy Cain immediately? No, is he marked for destruction? most definately. First you say God does not do the same thing as Hitler, and then immediately you swap it with "motivations". Which by so doing, you do indeed say that God does do the exact same thing as Hitler, just you justify it as "righteousness", 'because it's for a good purpose'. Just like Hitler. Ask Hitler if he was using righteousness. Ask those who believed in him if he was using righteousness.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: APL]
#159643
12/27/13 04:25 PM
12/27/13 04:25 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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1. You believe every act of punishment fits the withdraw and permit principle of punishment. True or false?
God is the restorer - Satan is the destroyer. EGW: The Saviour in His teachings ever showed the relation between cause and effect.
2. Evil angels are not free to wreak havoc as they please. They must have Jesus' permission to tempt or to destroy. Their hands are tied until Jesus unties them. True or false?
Evil angels have no free will? The history of Job had shown that suffering is inflicted by Satan, and is overruled by God for purposes of mercy. But Israel did not understand the lesson. The same error for which God had reproved the friends of Job was repeated by the Jews in their rejection of Christ. {DA 471.3} In the great controvery, Satan can claim foul for God interferring. At the end, God will withdraw all interference, and allow sin to go to completion.
3. Do you believe the death and destruction wrought by evil angels when Jesus permits represents the natural cause and effect consequence of sinning?
See #2
4. You have refused to post inspired passages you believe depict Jesus commanding His chosen people to wage war, to kill His enemies with the edge of the sword. Please explain why you have refused to post them.
As kland has said, you know the scripture references. Why repeat them over and over? God did give instructions to wayward Israel. But this in no wise proves that this was God's perfect will. You refuse to see the same situation with marriage and divorce, and with polygamy. Why?
5. You have not explained why you believe nature is self-acting, why you believe all Jesus need do is withdraw His restraining hand and the forces of nature will act in and of itself to cause the death and destruction Jesus is willing to permit. The SOP plainly says nature is not self-acting.
God causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust. It is sin that God has restrained. See #2
6. Do you believe the death and destruction wrought by nature when Jesus permits represents the natural cause and effect consequence of sinning?
All death is caused by ultimately by sin. Luke 13:1-5 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said to them, Suppose you that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, No: but, except you repent, you shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, on whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think you that they were sinners above all men that dwelled in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, No: but, except you repent, you shall all likewise perish. I cannot discern how your responses answer my questions.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: kland]
#159645
12/27/13 10:01 PM
12/27/13 10:01 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Was Hitler using righteousness to accomplish his goal?
The fact that you persist in writing such a question down shows contempt. Contempt? Who, you? Of course God does not do the same thing as Hitler.
The motivations of God could never be compared. He has proven His love so perfectly that there is NO EXCUSE for sin.
The execution of judgment is in perfect righteousness, not in the satanic fury but in the righteous wrath of God against satanic fury.
Who died first? Able was killed by his own brother in the spirit of satanic fury. Did God destroy Cain immediately? No, is he marked for destruction? most definately. First you say God does not do the same thing as Hitler, and then immediately you swap it with "motivations". Which by so doing, you do indeed say that God does do the exact same thing as Hitler, just you justify it as "righteousness", 'because it's for a good purpose'. Just like Hitler. Ask Hitler if he was using righteousness. Ask those who believed in him if he was using righteousness. This is what I'm talking about. You and APL both are confusing the issue. "have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?Matthew 12:5... in doing his work on the Sabbath day, is he committing a sin? You do not know the difference between sacred or Holy things and what is common or earthly things. You both put God on the same order as Hitler and accuse me of doing the deed?
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159646
12/27/13 10:10 PM
12/27/13 10:10 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Is a judge held accountable for the execution of justice?
1 Kings 8:32 Then hear thou in heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, condemning the wicked, to bring his way upon his head; and justifying the righteous, to give him according to his righteousness.
There is a difference between the judgment of men and of God
Psalm 58:1 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;
5 Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely.
6 Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth: break out the great teeth of the young lions, O Lord.
7 Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.
8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.
9 Before your pots can feel the thorns, he shall take them away as with a whirlwind, both living, and in his wrath.
10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.
11 So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth.
But you know better than David don't you? Brood of vipers, you do not know the righteousness of God.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159647
12/27/13 10:18 PM
12/27/13 10:18 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Psalm 96:9 O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.
10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof.
12 Let the field be joyful, and all that is therein: then shall all the trees of the wood rejoice
13 Before the Lord: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.
Did the inanimate objects of nature rejoice over the judgment of Hitler?
Hypocrites.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159648
12/27/13 10:21 PM
12/27/13 10:21 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Oh, and by the way this is unfulfilled New Testament prophecy.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159649
12/27/13 10:32 PM
12/27/13 10:32 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Genesis 18:20 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.
23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
26 And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
33 And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
Gen 19:11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door. (how mean those angels were for taking away the eyesight of those men who wanted to sodomize the angels!)
12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it.
14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
Are you calling Jesus a murderer for destroying Sodom?
Is the righteous judge of the world who destroyed Sodom by sending angels to destroy it a murderer?
You who say that He is a murderer for destroying wicked men, you do not know the righteousness of God. PERIOD!
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159650
12/27/13 10:47 PM
12/27/13 10:47 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Here's a question for you guys. If God does not take a personal role in the destruction of the wicked, then why did He command that a sacrifice be slain? Why would God command men to KILL animals?
Did the high priest represent Jesus? But those men would murder sacrifices every day?
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#159651
12/27/13 10:49 PM
12/27/13 10:49 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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The fire from heaven that consumed the sacrifices was it not Holy?
Why would a righteous God use the image of a corpse being consumed by flames of fire if it does not have a righteous purpose?
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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