The Lord said to the holy pair, “In the day that ye eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, ye shall surely die.” [See Genesis 3.] Eve was beguiled by the serpent, and made to believe that God would not do as he had said... The serpent had said that she should not die, and she felt no ill effects from eating the fruit,—nothing which could be interpreted to mean death, but, instead, a pleasurable sensation, which she imagined was as the angels felt. Her experience stood arrayed against the positive command of Jehovah, yet Adam permitted himself to be seduced by it. {CTBH 42.2}
Thus we often find it, even in the religious world. God’s express commands are transgressed; and “because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do the evil.” [Ecclesiastes 8:11.]... false experience arrays itself against the laws of life and the precepts of Jehovah. {CTBH 42.3}

God would have destroyed Adam and Eve the day they ate of the forbidden fruit by revealing His glory and they would have been tortured and consumed in His glory but they repented and accepted the sacrifice.

"could those whose hearts are filled with hatred of God, of truth and holiness, mingle with the heavenly throng and join their songs of praise? Could they endure the glory of God and the Lamb? No, no; years of probation were granted them, that they might form characters for heaven; but they have never trained the mind to love purity; they have never learned the language of heaven, and now it is too late. A life of rebellion against God has unfitted them for heaven. Its purity, holiness, and peace would be torture to them; the glory of God would be a consuming fire. They would long to flee from that holy place. They would welcome destruction, that they might be hidden from the face of Him who died to redeem them. The destiny of the wicked is fixed by their own choice. Their exclusion from heaven is voluntary with themselves, and just and merciful on the part of God.... {DD 16.5}

The revealing of the glory of the Father is a consuming fire to the wicked. The revealing of the guilt of the sinner is torture. It is not God's will that people be tortured, but He has hidden His glory for us so we could be prepared for His presence. If we have slighted the responsibillity that is our fault not God's.

Let us in imagination go back to the wilderness tabernacle, and see if we can discern the glorious gospel of Christ shining from the Jewish economy. A man enters the outer court with a lamb, which he brings to the door of the tabernacle. With solemn awe, and eyes raised to heaven, he lays his hand upon its head, while his moving lips, like Hannah’s of old, betray the burden of his heart. Then he lifts the knife, and takes the life of the sacrifice. His faith lays hold of the bleeding Lamb of Calvary, and his sin rolls from off his burdened heart onto the great Sacrifice. The blood is carefully caught; every drop is precious, for by faith he views the real sacrifice. The priest meets him, takes the blood of the sacrificed life, and passes from sight within the first veil, while the worshiper awaits with anxiety his return. {SDP 139.2}

While man lived near God, the altars were lighted by fire from heaven (God's glory consumed the sacrifice). But this perfect worship was marred. Cain’s mind became so blinded by sin that he failed to grasp the infinite sacrifice. Satan convinced him that God was an austere judge, demanding service. The love and sacrifice of the Saviour were overlooked. Cain and Abel each brought an offering to the gate of the garden; but the desire of the two hearts was greatly different. Abel brought a lamb, and as he took its life, his faith laid hold of the Lamb of God. The lamb was laid upon the altar, and fire flashed from the shining sword of the cherubim guarding the way to the Tree of Life, and the sacrifice was consumed. {SDP 136.2}

So if the glory of God was what consumed SACRIFICES then it is His presence that consumes the wicked.

The revealing of the Glory of the Father is Hell to the wicked.
Not as you say APL that they are left to Satan and his angels and consumed by their own sins. Their sins are what make them unfit to stand before God.

It is a very subtle twist that makes what you are teaching from Satan.

dedication - is your definition the Biblical definition of the word or the dictionary definition? Many times I've heard, "It’s true that God is love, but don’t forget, God is also just." Consider the phrase, "God's Justice". If you had to substitute the word “justice” for some other word, what would you choose? Punishment? If we rely on our modern day understanding of justice which causes us to view any reference to justice predominantly in legal terms: Quid-pro-quo payback justice, retributive justice, legal justice, and justice that primarily involves a punishment that fits the crime.

What is the Biblical definition of justice? That is what we need to know.

“Defend the poor and fatherless; Do justice to the afflicted and needy.” (Psalm 82:3) The Psalmist is obviously not suggesting that the afflicted and the needy should be punished in this verse? Rather, his command is that we should help them: justice in this verse refers to the actions of mercy and love.

Isaiah 1:16-17 Wash yourselves clean. Stop all this evil that I see you doing. Yes, stop doing evil 17 and learn to do right. See that justice is done---help those who are oppressed, give orphans their rights, and defend widows."

Once again, the justice involved here is to do good to the outcasts of society by correcting what has been done to them.
Notice a theme all the way through – that God is not the one acting by methods of violence when he administers justice. Rather, God’s justice is to compassionately intervene against the violent actions done by others.

Jeremiah 21:12 This is what the LORD says to the dynasty of David: "'Give justice each morning to the people you judge! Help those who have been robbed; rescue them from their oppressors. Otherwise, My anger will burn like an unquenchable fire because of all your sins.

God’s justice, in example after example, is ultimately to do what is right and to make things right by pouring out loving compassion to those who have been treated unfairly

Isaiah 30:18 The LORD is waiting to be kind to you. He rises to have compassion on you. The LORD is a God of justice. Blessed are all those who wait for him.

What is God’s justice in this verse? It is to be kind to his children and to have compassion on them.

Ezekiel 45:9 NLT "For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Enough, you princes of Israel! Stop your violence and oppression and do what is just and right. Quit robbing and cheating My people out of their land. Stop expelling them from their homes, says the Sovereign LORD.

Ezekiel 45:9 NKJV 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Enough, O princes of Israel! Remove violence and plundering, execute justice and righteousness, and stop dispossessing My people," says the Lord GOD.

Once again, God’s justice here is to make things right by stopping the violence, not by executing violence on others. The injustice is to rob, cheat, and mistreat people. “Justice” then is to begin treating people in the right way – to treat people the way God would treat people. The Old Testament concept of “justice” is manifested in positive acts of mercy and compassion to the mistreated and the outcasts of society who have been denied real justice. To “bring justice“ in the Old Testament does not mean to bring punishment, but to bring healing and reconciliation.   Justice means to make things right by correcting injustice. Justice then is ultimately an expression of mercy. It is mercy in action.

This mercy in action is described in Proverbs as a path that we are to follow. It is a way of life.   “I walk the way of righteousness; I follow the paths of justice.” (Proverbs 8:20)   In verse we see Hebrew poetry, which is not based on rhyme but on repetition – where the second line of the verse adds meaning and depth to the first line. The path of justice then is the way of righteousness. It is the path of right doing. It is the path of mercy.

Proverbs 2:8-9 He guards the paths of justice, And preserves the way of His saints. 9 Then you will understand righteousness and justice, Equity and every good path.

Micah 6:6-8 With which shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old? 7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has showed you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?

What about punishment? We often associate God’s justice with God’s punishment.  Is there no dimension of punishment to God’s justice?   How does God punish? Does sin need to be punished? I believe that this question is ultimately answered at the Cross.

Sin carries its own punishment. God does not need to add on additional painful penalties – sin does that just fine on its own. Listen to the very clear words in Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 2:17-19 You have brought this on yourself by abandoning the LORD your God when he led you on his way. 18 You won't gain anything by going to Egypt to drink water from the Nile River. You won't gain anything by going to Assyria to drink water from the Euphrates River. 19 Your own wickedness will correct you, and your unfaithful ways will punish you. You should know and see how evil and bitter it is for you if you abandon the LORD your God and do not fear me," declares the Almighty LORD of Armies.

Jeremiah 4:18 "You brought this on yourself. This is your punishment. It is bitter. It breaks your heart."

As my friend says: God is like a physician and we are his sick patients who are infected with sin and selfishness. Let’s say that you see a physician for a cough and fever. After examining you and running some tests, including maybe a chest x-ray, suppose that the doctor ends up diagnosing you with pneumonia. You are informed that antibiotics are necessary to cure this condition, but suppose you get home and refuse to take them. Does the doctor need to sneak into your home at night to worsen your pneumonia (because he is angry with you) or does the pneumonia do its own punishing?   If you refuse to brush your teeth, do dentists get angry and insert additional cavities into your teeth? If you step off a cliff, does God need to set in motion the process of gravity so that you fall and hurt yourself?   Sin carries its own punishment and the Biblical concept of God justice has nothing to do with adding on additional pain to settle the score.

Zechariah 7:9 "This is what the LORD of Armies says: Administer real justice, and be compassionate and kind to each other.

Did Jesus in the NT change God's definition of Justice? Nope! One Greek word is translated either righteousness or justice. Jesus’ repeated rebuke to the Pharisees was that (even though they were religious outwardly) they were not merciful and kind to the outcasts of society. Matthew 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

In the story of the woman caught in adultery, who was “unjust” in that story? Was it not the selfrighteous religious leaders who brought her only as a trap for Jesus? The injustice was to hypocritically sit as judge and moral authority and to wish for this poor woman to be stoned to death. Jesus administered Godly justice, not only for the woman, but her accusers! God knew their faults, but did not broadcast them. Forgive 70 times 7. Show compassion and love to all. That is the kind of justice that Jesus came to bring as described (prophetically) in the book of Isaiah.

Matthew 12:18-20 "Here is my servant whom I have chosen, whom I love, and in whom I delight. I will put my Spirit on him, and he will announce justice to the nations. 19 He will not quarrel or shout, and no one will hear his voice in the streets. 20 He will not break off a damaged cattail. He will not even put out a smoking wick until he has made justice [loving restoration] victorious.

Acts 8:32-33 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

At the Cross, we see no violence, no punishment coming directly from the hand of God. Who was it that exhibited violence at the Cross? What we see at the Cross is humanity, represented by a mob of religious yet violent murderers who tortured to death the Son of God. Who deserved to be punished at the Cross? By our understanding of justice, would not the innocent Jesus have been justified to call down fire from heaven on the guilty people who brought him to a sham trial and then cruelly mocked him?

Instead, what we see at the Cross is the innocent Son of God, saying to guilty humanity: “Father, forgive them.” This returning of love and kindness in the face of our hatred is the radical restorative justice of God.   At the Cross, our desire for punishment, our violence, and our hatred, is replaced by God’s forgiveness, God’s non-violence, and God’s love.

Revelation 19:7-8 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready." 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

Again, a single Greek word that can be either translated as justice or righteousness. Check out older versions of the Bible on this text going all the way back to the Wycliffe Bible, do you know that the robe of righteousness is also translated as the robe of justice! If we take the Bible as a whole, to have a robe of justice is a beautiful thing. When God’s people wear a rob of justice, the sick and outcasts of society will be cared for, the oppressed will find words of comfort and encouragement, and the good news will go throughout the world, not so much by words preached from a pulpit, but through Christ-like actions...

(excerpts from Brad Cole)

I figured you'd pretend that I said WE are to give people what they deserve and seek revenge! Or that "justice" is only punishment. But that is NOT what I wrote.

I figured you'd totally ignore the part that Christ took upon Himself what we deserve because -- yes, we've all fallen far short and all deserve death.

He took upon Himself what we deserve, so all who believe on Him may have His merits, be cleansed, and partake of what HE deserved.

Since God has provided this marvellous gift whereby we can be saved -- therefore yes we too should seek to offer hope and help to all for whom Christ died. For Christ took upon Himself what they deserve as well -- we have nothing over them, except that we know where salvation is!

Christ TOOK UPON HIMSELF WHAT WE DESERVE -- that is love, and since He loved us so much to do that we are to extend that love and care to others.
Just like the parable of the ungrateful servant -- we are forgiven much, and need to treat others as Christ treats us!

But the other is also true--
Those who refuse God's gracious gift in Christ, who refuse to accept Christ Who took upon Himself what they deserve, and who refuse to be cleansed and molded into His image -- who refuse to defend the poor, and help the needy, who do all the things that you condemn above --
Yes, they will receive what they deserve. Justice will be executed in righteousness.
They refused Christ's provision and chose to experience what they deserve themselves.

Justice demands fairness -- total fairness, everyone receives what they deserve. And all who accept Christ and His cleansing power, receive what HE, the perfect Son of Man, deserves, because He took upon Himself what we deserve.
Justice in righteousness is totally and completely fair to everyone, making full and powerful provision for salvation that none need perish.

It's not our place to go after vengeance, for we do not know the heart or the person's future decisions. But God does -- that's why He says leave the justice part to Him.

If Christ would have executed justice upon the mob at the cross He would have completely ruined the plan of salvation.

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins,

Jesus took OUR SINS upon Himself, that is -- He took our guilt, He took the guilt of the whole world! He was suffering what we deserve. For Him to demand they respect His innocence would have been to deny that He was carrying our sin.

But when He returns in glory, He returns without sin, and what will those murderers in that mob see? Some, like the centurion, who believed and accepted Christ will see their Savior coming! Some in that mob will be among the saved, for they later accepted Christ. But the rest--

Yes, they will be resurrected to see Jesus coming -- but it will be a terrifying time for them.

Rev. 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

They will be wailing in terror! And crying to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb.

They die THREE times!
1. The first death, 2. They are raised and die again at the second coming. 3. They are raised and die again after the millennium.




Jesus warned them in that mock trial: "Nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." Matt. 26:64



Then a thousand years later at the great white throne judgment depicted in Revelation 20.

Indeed, save us from the wrath of the LAMB.

Before I had the general lesson study in our church this morning I took the time to read the first chapter again in Steps to Christ. It is a sad story you find there how Satan succeeds in deluting the minds of some of the saintliest saints and blinds their vision of God as seen throught the mediatorial service of our Real High Priest.

It might not do some of you much harm if you'd review the current Sabbathschool study guides on the Sanctuary service. This is quite basic to understanding the doctrines of the Seventh-day Adventist church.

It is also essential to understand the nature of God and how he works.

Is there really any reason to remain babes in understanding Scripture?

Is there any reason why the last prayer of a hopeless sinner will not be heard?

I did study the Sabbath School Lessons this past quarter, and indeed God has done everything possible to win, forgive, restore, and cleanse every person.
Yes, Christ takes our sins upon Himself, the whole sanctuary service is a process to remove sin from us so we can be saved and have eternal life. God has done everything so we can have salvation.

Yet, how does this excuse the people who reject that marvelous gift and determine to keep their sins upon themselves.

Are you also of the opinion that God has no right to bring them to judgment, show them why they are not saved, and cleanse the earth of all sin?

After the 1000 years and before the Great White Throne judgment the lost demonstrate that God is just -- they are incurable. In one vast army they will think to capture God's city and dethrone God Himself. They aren't sorry for their sins only sorry they lost the war.
The fairness and love of God will not be in question in anyone's mind except in those who believe that God should allow sin to continue forever.

The presence of God is a consuming fire to sin, and those who cling to sin will be consumed, while those who have allowed His love and glory to burn sin out of their lives will live happily in His presence.

The issue is -- are we allowing God to burn the sin OUT of our lives NOW!

It was Jesus who commanded Moses to kill criminals.


Sin does not kill sinners. Sinners will die the second death because Jesus will resurrect them, judge them, and then burn them alive in a lake of fire.