And there is lies the big question. I guess the problem with sin is that it makes god mad and makes him want to torture and kill sinners. Of course, what is the sentence against transgression? The second death. And EGW says that God is not the executioner of the sentence against transgression, but does what?

You prove your ignorance again APL.

Look at this quote very carefully and see if you should ask forgiveness before you see the wrath of the lamb.

"The Saviour is presented before John under the symbols of “the Lion of the tribe of Judah” and of “a Lamb as it had been slain.” Revelation 5:5, 6. These symbols represent the union of omnipotent power and self-sacrificing love. The Lion of Judah, so terrible to the rejectors of His grace, will be the Lamb of God to the obedient and faithful. The pillar of fire that speaks terror and wrath to the transgressor of God’s law is a token of light and mercy and deliverance to those who have kept His commandments. The arm strong to smite the rebellious will be strong to deliver the loyal. Everyone who is faithful will be saved. “He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” Matthew 24:31. {AA 589.2}

This is proof that you are wrong APL, but God has told me you will not repent.

Thanks for giving me the perfect search query APL to prove what God has been sharing with me about this issue...

"I was shown that the seven last plagues will be poured out after Jesus leaves the sanctuary. Said the angel, “It is the wrath of God and the Lamb that causes the destruction or death of the wicked. At the voice of God the saints will be mighty and terrible as an army with banners, but they will not then execute the judgment written. The execution of the judgment will be at the close of the one thousand years.” {EW 52.1}

So I guess it comes down to this, if you believe you are correct that execution of Justice is murder, then you do not agree with the writtings of Ellen White, and this will drive you away from the church.

I fear for you.

Father please pour out your Spirit to unify your church in truth so that when we venture to teach others of your grace it is so defined in our souls that they can see it as well as hear it.

We need to be unified on these issues or it divides the brethren.

In what the Spirit tells me, if we misrepresent the character of God through scripture, it destroys faith. There is only power in the word of God in purity of truth, not in made up fables. There is no power in fables or lies.

Truth when discovered is verified in nature itself.

Truth is perfection in the knowledge of the Glory of the Lord.

Truth has a circuit, there is no variableness of it's path, and when the current reaches back to "GOD ALMIGHTY" the result is always perfect truth. This kind of truth will never fail, but it will always be misunderstood by those who misrepresent God, till the end.

Thank you Father for the promise of your response to this prayer. Always in the name of your Son, Amen.

Actually, it is Ellen that says God is not the executioner. It is Ellen that says that God destroys no man. It is Ellen that says that Jesus came to the dark cloud over God's character. It is not me you should fear for my friend. Thankfully we have God's word. You should understand what God's wrath really is. The Jews after their rejection of Christ, confirmed in their stubborn impenitence and had refused the last offers of mercy, “God withdrew His protection from them and removed His restraining power from Satan and his angels, and the nation was left to the control of the leader she had chosen” {GC 28}.

When God’s wrath against sin fell upon Christ as our substitute, it was the separation from His Father that caused Him such great anguish. “This agony He must not exert His divine power to escape. As man He must suffer the consequence of man’s sin. As man He must endure the wrath of God against transgression” {DA 686}. Finally, on the cross, “the wrath of God against sin, the terrible manifestation of His displeasure because of iniquity, filled the soul of His Son with consternation. … The withdrawal of the divine countenance from the Saviour in this hour of supreme anguish pierced His heart with a sorrow that can never be fully understood by man” {DA 753}.

Paul explains in Romans 1:24; Romans 1:26; Romans 1:28, God reveals His wrath by turning impenitent men over to the inevitable results of their rebellion. This persistent resistance of God’s love and mercy culminates in the final revelation of God’s wrath on that day when the Spirit of God is at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, the wicked have no protection from the evil one. “As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose” {GC 614}

It's true that God allows sin to reveal its malignant character and natural results. In Jerusalem the many factions in Judea were striving for dominion, some violently agitating to throw off the Romes, others pleading caution and being killed because of it, the fierce passions unleashed and unrestrained by the Holy Spirit caused terrible results. Satan was in control. It was their rebellion that brought the Roman armies against them.

So it will be when Christ leaves the sanctuary and the Holy Spirit is withdrawn from the rejecters of His grace. Sin will reveal the terrible reality of what selfish, power hungry carnal natures will do -- it will be a terrible time.

There is no question on that point.

Also that God is merciful and has done everything possible to save and restore is also wonderful truth.




But why do you make God's judgment upon those who chose to follow the great rebel a sinister thing?

Hebrews 10:26-31 is part of a powerful message of Christ's all sufficient and wonderful ministry for the saving of people. Yet it is a warning of the judgment.
.

But James, I think you are confused as to how to separate the two. I am indeed accusing you of putting God on the same order as Hitler as you do not know the difference between sacred or Holy things and what is common or earthly things. You are unable to distinguish between the two.

If you think you can make a distinction, why not do it? But you do not know the difference between right and wrong. You only make a distinction between who is doing the act, although the act is exactly the same.

Until you make a distinction between right and wrong, you will continue to see God acting in the same way as Hitler. You just say that one dictator is "righteous" and the other dictator is "unrighteous". Which means some other opinion may be different. Until you make the distinction between right and wrong, anything that APL or others say will make absolutely no sense to you as you don't see a problem with God doing something which is wrong. Therefore, you do see God doing things that are "wrong" but you whitewash them as being "right". Only after you understand what you are doing will looking at any specific instance mean anything to you.

So why do the wicked say, "wrath of the Lamb"?
As you pointed out, He is referred to as a Lion elsewhere. So why don't the wicked say, "wrath of the Lion of the tribe of Judah"?



Yikes! It's the baby sheep!

Run for your lives!

Wow -- people really equate God's righteous acts with Hitler?
Sounds to me like satan talking, saying, "God has no right to end my reign, I can kill, main and ruin everything God has made and stands for, but God DARE NOT punish or put an end to me or my henchmen or I will accuse Him of being the worst tyrant and the cause of it all.

According to your reasoning Hitler should not have been stopped and God should just step aside -- get out of the way so satan can take over???


To satisfy that outrageous claim, God will withdraw for a short time and everyone will see what a disaster to everything that is just and good allowing Satan full reign will be.
The righteous justice of God in putting a final and complete end to it will be acknowledged by all.