In whose interest did Ellen write the following: "thorns and thistles, sorrow and pain and death, are all the result of disobedience to God"

M: What about the lake of fire? Jesus will burn alive resurrected sinners in a lake of fire. Do you disagree?

A: "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Hm - HOW are death and hell cast into the lake of fire?

M: What about the lake of fire? Jesus will burn alive resurrected sinners in a lake of fire. Do you disagree?

A: "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Hm - HOW are death and hell cast into the lake of fire?

d:There are countless times when God simply removes His protection from those who reject Him.
The snake scene was one such case.

a:MM, it seems me, to not agree with you (and me) on this issue.

They suffer punishment varying in duration and intensity, "according to their works," but finally ending in the second death. {GC 544.2}

Jesus, in union with the saints, meted out to the wicked the portion they must suffer, according to their works; and it was written in the book of death, and set off against their names. Satan and his angels were also judged by Jesus and the saints. Satan's punishment was to be far greater than that of those whom he had deceived. It so far exceeded their punishment that it could not be compared with theirs. After all those whom he had deceived had perished, Satan was to still live and suffer on much longer. {1SG 212.2}

Jesus did remove His protection. However, He worked to ensure the snakes did not bite the wrong people. You think permitting the snakes to kill people makes Jesus less culpable. Such a person, in a court of law, would be convicted of murder. Imagine a snake handler allowing his snakes to bite and kill people. He would be convicted of murder. And rightly so. But not Jesus.

They suffer punishment varying in duration and intensity, "according to their works," but finally ending in the second death. {GC 544.2}

Ge 3:4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die.

For there's no harm in the fruit. If there will be any dying around here, it will be because God is doing the killing.

Ge 3:5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

And He will be upset with you knowing as much as He does and therefore will kill you! Do you really want to obey such a dictator as that?

Ge 3:6 ¶ So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate.

The instant man accepted the temptations of Satan, and did the very things God had said he should not do, Christ, the Son of God, stood between the living and the dead, saying, "Let the punishment fall on Me. I will stand in man's place. He shall have another chance." {FLB 75.3}

As soon as there was sin, there was a Saviour. Christ knew that He would have to suffer, yet He became man's substitute. As soon as Adam sinned, the Son of God presented Himself as surety for the human race, with just as much power to avert the doom pronounced upon the guilty as when He died upon the cross of Calvary. {FLB 75.4}

The Son of God, undertaking to become the Redeemer of the race, placed Adam in a new relation to his Creator. He was still fallen; but a door of hope was opened to him. The wrath of God still hung over Adam, but the execution of the sentence of death was delayed, and the indignation of God was restrained, because Christ had entered upon the work of becoming man's Redeemer. Christ was to take the wrath of God, which in justice should fall upon man. He became a refuge for man, and, although man was indeed a criminal, deserving the wrath of God, yet he could, by faith in Christ, run into the refuge provided and be safe. {Con 19}

As our Mediator, Christ works incessantly. Whether men receive or reject Him, He works earnestly for them. He grants them life and light, striving by His Spirit to win them from Satan's service. And while the Saviour works, Satan also works, with all deceivableness of unrighteousness, and with unflagging energy. But victory will never be his. {RH, March 12, 1901 par. 5}

When Christ shall come in His glory, the wicked cannot endure to behold Him. The light of His presence, which is life to those who love Him, is death to the ungodly. The expectation of His coming is to them a "fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation." Hebrews 10:27. When He shall appear, they will pray to be hidden from the face of Him who died to redeem them. {MB 26.1}

The forbearance of God has been very great, so great that when we consider the continuous insult to His holy commandments we marvel. The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. But He will certainly arise to punish the wicked, who so boldly defy the just claims of the decalogue. {HP 345.5}

M: What about the lake of fire? Jesus will burn alive resurrected sinners in a lake of fire. Do you disagree?

A: "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Hm - HOW are death and hell cast into the lake of fire?

m: Jesus did remove His protection. However, He worked to ensure the snakes did not bite the wrong people. You think permitting the snakes to kill people makes Jesus less culpable. Such a person, in a court of law, would be convicted of murder. Imagine a snake handler allowing his snakes to bite and kill people. He would be convicted of murder. And rightly so. But not Jesus.

A: It is interesting that you bring in human court of law. In God's law, if you are angry with your brother, you are in danger of hell fire. Do human courts support this? As for removal of protection, you have stated that there is nothing the snakes could not do unless God caused them to do it. Do you still hold that view? And free will, I don't think you believe such a thing can exist. If God does support free will, the removal of protection is not an arbitrary act on God's part to punish sinners. It is a necessary part on God's part for those that reject Him. Read GC 36.1

M: The Jews Jesus allowed to be killed by snakes did not pay the penalty for their sins. He will resurrect them, judge them, and then cast them alive into a lake of fire. They will suffer in duration and intensity according to their sinfulness and then they will finally die.

A: Who said that this was the ultimate penalty for sin? Read GC36 - God is not the executioner of the sentence against sin. What is that sentence? The second death. Does EGW contradict herself? I think not!

Exodus
12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I [am] the LORD.

Ezekiel
5:15 So it shall be a reproach and a taunt, an instruction and an astonishment unto the nations that [are] round about thee, when I shall execute judgments in thee in anger and in fury and in furious rebukes. I the LORD have spoken [it].
5:16 When I shall send upon them the evil arrows of famine, which shall be for [their] destruction, [and] which I will send to destroy you: and I will increase the famine upon you, and will break your staff of bread:
5:17 So will I send upon you famine and evil beasts, and they shall bereave thee; and pestilence and blood shall pass through thee; and I will bring the sword upon thee. I the LORD have spoken [it].
25:17 And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them.

Micah
5:15 And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.

John
5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Jude
1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

EGW: They suffer punishment varying in duration and intensity, "according to their works," but finally ending in the second death. {GC 544.2}

A: Cause and Effect.

"Every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire." "The indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He hath utterly destroyed them, He hath delivered them to the slaughter." "Upon the wicked He shall rain quick burning coals, fire and brimstone and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup." Isaiah 9:5; 34:2; Psalm 11:6, margin. Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth's surface seems one molten mass--a vast, seething lake of fire. It is the time of the judgment and perdition of ungodly men--"the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion." Isaiah 34:8. {GC 672.2}

The wicked receive their recompense in the earth. Proverbs 11:31. They "shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:1. Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished "according to their deeds." The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit. His punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions, he is still to live and suffer on. In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch--Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and heaven and earth, beholding, declare the righteousness of Jehovah. {GC 673.1}

Satan's work of ruin is forever ended. For six thousand years he has wrought his will, filling the earth with woe and causing grief throughout the universe. The whole creation has groaned and travailed together in pain. Now God's creatures are forever delivered from his presence and temptations. "The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they [the righteous] break forth into singing." Isaiah 14:7. And a shout of praise and triumph ascends from the whole loyal universe. "The voice of a great multitude," "as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings," is heard, saying: "Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Revelation 19:6. {GC 673.2}

While the earth was wrapped in the fire of destruction, the righteous abode safely in the Holy City. Upon those that had part in the first resurrection, the second death has no power. While God is to the wicked a consuming fire, He is to His people both a sun and a shield. Revelation 20:6; Psalm 84:11. {GC 673.3}

"I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away." Revelation 21:1. The fire that consumes the wicked purifies the earth. Every trace of the curse is swept away. No eternally burning hell will keep before the ransomed the fearful consequences of sin. {GC 674.1}