Mike:Tom, we both we agree that born again believers are tempted by their sinful flesh natures. Are these temptations independent of their past sins?

Tom:Not at all. It is our past sins which give force to the temptations of the flesh. Consider the smoker. The strength of the temptations for him to smoke comes not only from inherited tendencies to evil, but the cultivated ones as well.

Mike:Paul spoke about the mind of the old man and the mind of the new man. See Eph 4:20-24. How do you explain these two minds?

Tom: Please consider the first page of this page. I think that treats your question.

Paul makes it clear that our old man mind is crucified and buried the moment we are born again, and that's why I believe our former cultivated character habits of sin (i.e., our old man mind) no longer tempts us after we're born again, that is, so long as we are abiding in Jesus in the mind of the new man.

It is true that our cultivated habits of sin strengthen our corresponding inherited traits. Remember, cultivated habits are nothing more than inherited traits that we ourselves have converted into character. The traits that we nuture and strengthen are the ones we pass on to our children in strengthened form, along with the traits we never cultivated.

These same strengthened traits that we pass on to our children remain within us after we are born again. They tempt us with greater strength, strength proportionate to what we added to it. It is this fortified fleshly nature that tempts us after we are born again - not our former sins in some other form, or our old man mind.

Before we are born again we spend our time fortifying and strengthening the traits we inherited by developing old man habits of character. After we are born our old man mind is dead and buried. The only thing that remains to tempt us is our fortified fallen flesh nature.

Tom,

I've found two quotes we could discuss:

"Christ's heart was pierced by a far sharper pain than that caused by the nails driven into his hands and feet. He was bearing the sins of the whole world, enduring our punishment,--the wrath of God against transgression. His trial involved the fierce temptation of thinking that he was forsaken by God. His soul was tortured by the pressure of great darkness, lest he should swerve from his uprightness during the terrible ordeal. Unless there is a possibility of yielding, temptation is no temptation. Temptation is resisted when man is powerfully influenced to do a wrong action; and, knowing that he can do it, resists, by faith, with a firm hold upon divine power. This was the ordeal through which Christ passed. He could not have been tempted in all points as man is tempted, had there been no possibility of his failing. He was a free agent, placed on probation, as was Adam, and as is every man. In his closing hours, while hanging on the cross, he experienced to the fullest extent what man must experience when striving against sin. He realized how bad a man may become by yielding to sin. He realized the terrible consequence of the transgression of God's law; for the iniquity of the whole world was upon him." {YI, July 20, 1899 par. 10}

"The disciples could not discern the evil of Judas' heart; only the eye of God could discern the hidden motive, the unholy desire. When an impure thought is welcomed, an unholy desire cherished, a rebellious purpose formed, the purity of the soul is stained and its innocence is ruined, temptations prevail, and hell triumphs. 'Every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin; and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.' A man is tempted to sin when some attractive object or indulgence is presented to him, and he is drawn to overstep principle, and to violate his conscience in doing that which he knows to be wrong." {ST, December 18, 1893 par. 7}

Thank you, Rosangela. The first one was the one I was trying to remember.

It seems to me that Christ took upon Him both our inherited and cultivated tendencies to evil. How He took our inherited tendencies is easier to understand than how He took our cultivated tendencies. The inherited tendencies He assumed by accepting the results of the great law of heredity. Genetically He was like us.

How He took our cultivated tendencies to evil, I don't know. But this happened not simply on the cross, but was a part of His incarnation. There are a couple of ways to see this. I'll name three.

John 1:29 speaks of the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. That "takes" was present tense, and could be well translated "taking" or "bearing".

Matthew refers to Christ's healing as a fulfillment of Isaiah 53 long before the cross.

The Spirit of Prophesy tells us that it was the weight of the sins of the world pressing upon Christ which made His temptations in the wilderness so difficult.

I understand that Christ was tempted as we are, with inherited and cultivated tendencies to evil. Obviously Christ never sinned, so the cultivated tendencies to evil were not His (i.e. not due to sins He commited) but were ours.

On the cross, the temptation of Christ reached its greatest point, which is shown by the statement that Christ saw how evil a man could be come. Isaiah 53 brings this out also, as well as a number of psalms. Christ felt as if He were the worst sinner who ever lived.

Back to the first quote. It brings out that Christ was powerfully influenced, and overcame by laying hold of divine power by faith. I believe Christ would have been overcome had He not done this, just as we cannot overcome apart from laying hold of divine power by faith. It is this fact which is characteristic of Christ's having taken our sinful nature -- i.e. Christ had a force acting upon Him (the force of our sinful nature) which would have caused Him to sin had He not laid hold of divine power by faith.

Let's take a look at the text:

"Unless there is a possibility of yielding, temptation is no temptation. Temptation is resisted when man is powerfully influenced to do a wrong action; and, knowing that he can do it, resists, by faith, with a firm hold upon divine power."

Does this defition of temptation apply to Adam or not?

No, not in context. Our first parents had the ability to overcome on their own, without having to lay hold of divine power by faith, just like all of the other worlds were able to overcome. We do not have that ability, and neither did Christ (in His humanity).