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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#160043
01/06/14 05:39 AM
01/06/14 05:39 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,603
Canada
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By denying God's right to execute judgment is to deny His kingship and right to rule.
The doctrine of "judgment" is seen all through the whole Bible. God is constantly presented in the majesty of Judge. He calls the world to account. No man or nation can escape His judgment.
"The principal Hebrew word for the verb to judge is shaphat. The principal noun for judgment is mishpat. The root idea of shaphat is to rule or judge in the sense of rendering a verdict. "The noun mishpat means the judgment which is given by the shopet (judge), whence the word can mean justice, ordinance, legal right, and so forth."
The Hebrew word shaphat has the double meaning of "to rule" or "to judge." Translators have rendered shaphat in both ways. .
Judgment is a function of the king or ruler. To be a king means to be given the responsibility of judge.
It is not the job of the citizens to act as judge, but it is the responsibility of the king.
Throughout the book of Judges, the judges are Israel's deliverers and saviours who annihilate their enemies and bring Israel rest.
The big difference is that our Deliverer first must deliver everyone who will respond, from their sins. His work of forgiving sins is especially a manifestation of the work of a judge. In view of Jesus' message of future judgment, forgiveness and deliverance from sin is urgent.
Remember God could have simply left sin to burn itself out -- everyone would have been destroyed, there would have been no hope, no deliverance, no justice.
But God is ruler and king still -- He will judge.
He will separate the "sheep and the goats". Those who responded to His offer of Life, and received His justification and sanctification will enter the joy of the Lord, while those who rejected it will enter the fire inflicting punishment that is irreversible -- the eternal death.
2 Cor. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he has done, whether it be good or bad.
John 5:20 Jesus says, " I judge: and my judgment is just".
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: dedication]
#160048
01/06/14 02:38 PM
01/06/14 02:38 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Physicians make judgments about patients all the time. But do the physicians then kill their patients? Nope. What you really want dedication is for God to be the executioner of the transgressor. This God is not! Hosea 4:17 AKJV Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone. Here is a judgment and response.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#160049
01/06/14 02:56 PM
01/06/14 02:56 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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APL, repeating your view without explaining the lake of fire is pointless. Dismissing Dedication's post with a curt retort is disrespectful. Ignoring my questions and comments is rude.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#160054
01/06/14 03:19 PM
01/06/14 03:19 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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APL, repeating your view without explaining the lake of fire is pointless. Dismissing Dedication's post with a curt retort is disrespectful. Ignoring my questions and comments is rude. Mike, With all due respect, I truly believe you have missed APL's entire point to begin with--his whole purpose for posting here. Don't let him succeed. Spend your time more profitably in building up the kingdom of God. I've increasingly realized the futility of trying to evangelize the devil's missionaries. Their success is gained merely in wasting the Lord's servants' time. The longer they can lead the Lord's servants on to believe there is some hope of saving them, and the more time they can extract, so much the less time remains for the Lord's servants to have used in saving someone else. Many of the devil's missionaries know not the part they are playing. But let not their ignorance be matched in our own. We must be "wise as serpents"--meaning we need to understand the devil's tricks. APL is beyond changing his mind. That is amply demonstrated in the halls of this forum. He won't see the truth, for he has too often rejected it. If APL were to read the Testimonies for the Church, with a mind set on seeking the Lord's will in place of cherished opinion, there may be yet some hope. Mrs. White wrote the following short testimony there which seems to apply, in a general sense, to any of us, and yet there are some testimonies which would apply more specifically to his case--but which I am certain he would reject were you or I to present them here, and thus I won't at this time. Chapter 13 - Object of Personal Testimonies
Dear Brethren and Sisters: The Lord has again manifested Himself to me. June 12, 1868, while speaking to the brethren in the house of worship at Battle Creek, Michigan, the Spirit of God came upon me, and in an instant I was in vision. The view was extensive. I had commenced to write the fifth volume of Spiritual Gifts; but as I had testimonies of a practical nature which you should have immediately, I left that work to prepare this little pamphlet. {2T 112.1}
In this last vision I was shown that which fully justifies my course in publishing personal testimonies. When the Lord singles out individual cases and specifies their wrongs, others, who have not been shown in vision, frequently take it for granted that they are right, or nearly so. If one is reproved for a special wrong, brethren and sisters should carefully examine themselves to see wherein they have failed and wherein they have been guilty of the same sin. They should possess the spirit of humble confession. If others think them right, it does not make them so. God looks at the heart. He is proving and testing souls in this manner. In rebuking the wrongs of one, He designs to correct many. But if they fail to take the reproof to themselves, and flatter themselves that God passes over their errors because He does not especially single them out, they deceive their own souls and will be shut up in darkness and be left to their own ways to follow the imagination of their own hearts. {2T 112.2}
Many are dealing falsely with their own souls and are in a great deception in regard to their true condition before God. He employs ways and means to best serve His purpose and to prove what is in the hearts of His professed followers. He makes plain the wrongs of some that others may thus be warned, and fear, and shun those errors. By self-examination they may find that they are doing the same things which God condemns in others. If they really desire to serve God, and fear to offend Him, they will not wait for their sins to be specified before they make confession and with humble repentance return unto the Lord. They will forsake the things which have displeased God, according to the light given to others. If, on the contrary, those who are not right see that they are guilty of the very sins that have been reproved in others, yet continue in the same unconsecrated course because they have not been specially named, they endanger their own souls, and will be led captive by Satan at his will. {2T 113.1}
Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: APL]
#160055
01/06/14 03:25 PM
01/06/14 03:25 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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Physicians make judgments about patients all the time. But do the physicians then kill their patients? Nope. What you really want dedication is for God to be the executioner of the transgressor. This God is not! Hosea 4:17 AKJV Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone. Here is a judgment and response. APL has built an idol of cherished opinion here. Let him alone. Thousands are making the same mistake as did the Pharisees whom Christ reproved at Matthew's feast. Rather than give up some cherished idea, or discard some idol of opinion, many refuse the truth which comes down from the Father of light. They trust in self, and depend upon their own wisdom, and do not realize their spiritual poverty. They insist on being saved in some way by which they may perform some important work. When they see that there is no way of weaving self into the work, they reject the salvation provided. {DA 280.1} Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#160058
01/06/14 04:01 PM
01/06/14 04:01 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,477
Midland
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I've increasingly realized the futility of trying to evangelize the devil's missionaries. So would you say that if you did have success in evangelizing "the devil's missionaries", they would recant and say that God indeed does act like the devil?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#160059
01/06/14 04:07 PM
01/06/14 04:07 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Green - you quote a reference which speaks of works. Where I have claimed we are saved by works? We are saved by God from our sins, and by nothing we can do lest we boast. We are not saved from what God is going to do to us, unless you speak about God letting us have our own way. It is you that has said that you are glad you are not like me, or kland, or Johann, or Gregory. You thanks God that you are not like us sinners. That sure sounds like pride in your own opinion. "Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed." "The sin that is most nearly hopeless and incurable is pride of opinion, self-conceit."
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: kland]
#160060
01/06/14 04:10 PM
01/06/14 04:10 PM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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I've increasingly realized the futility of trying to evangelize the devil's missionaries. So would you say that if you did have success in evangelizing "the devil's missionaries", they would recant and say that God indeed does act like the devil? The pharisees were very offended when they were told they were wrong, and they rejected the truth about God.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#160062
01/06/14 04:17 PM
01/06/14 04:17 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Physicians make judgments about patients all the time. But do the physicians then kill their patients? Nope. What you really want dedication is for God to be the executioner of the transgressor. This God is not! Hosea 4:17 AKJV Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone. Here is a judgment and response. APL has built an idol of cherished opinion here. Let him alone. Thousands are making the same mistake as did the Pharisees whom Christ reproved at Matthew's feast. Rather than give up some cherished idea, or discard some idol of opinion, many refuse the truth which comes down from the Father of light. They trust in self, and depend upon their own wisdom, and do not realize their spiritual poverty. They insist on being saved in some way by which they may perform some important work. When they see that there is no way of weaving self into the work, they reject the salvation provided. {DA 280.1} Blessings, Green Cochoa. I agree that this is a heretical belief that has infiltrated our church as a movement in these last days. They are as thick as those who believe that everyone makes it to heaven, the sacred namers, the anti- Ellen Whiters, and the pentecostal horde of Rock and Roll worshippers. We are seeing the omaga of apostacy unvieled before our eyes and everyone is asleep, or have no strength to do anything about it if they wanted to. God wont let me go down like that. The people who think it a sport to come into SDA church or websites and try to convert others to your beliefs, and all those here for other-than-honorable intentions, my God has news for you. Heavenly angels are marking your every thought, move and intention, and they are here to protect those who believe. As long as there is someone who thinks they were sent by God to alter the message of the SDA church, God will direct me to that fight. I do not defend the corporate segment, only those convicted and humbled in God's grace, the true church. Strive to be the church within the church. We need to continually sigh and cry for the abominations done in His sanctuary, but it takes God's intervention and a heart willing to be humilliated for errors to truly be converted and empowered to take on errors. Those who will not hear the truth are fooling themselves and others. Those who refuse to be persuaded by the unadulterated truth will be shaken out when the test comes. Back to the subject... Everyone knows fire from heaven destroyed Sodom and Gommorah correct? But what was that fire from heaven? "Now the last night of Sodom was approaching. But men perceived it not. While angels drew near on their mission of destruction, men were dreaming of prosperity and pleasure. The last day was like every other that had come and gone. A landscape of unrivaled beauty was bathed in the rays of the declining sun. Pleasure-seeking throngs were passing to and fro, intent upon the enjoyment of the hour. {EP 99.1} In the twilight, two strangers drew near to the city gate. None could discern in those wayfarers the mighty heralds of divine judgment. The careless multitude little dreamed that in their treatment of these heavenly messengers that very night they would reach the climax of guilt which doomed their city. {EP 99.2} "The divine Majesty descended in a cloud with a glorious retinue of angels, who appeared as flames of fire." {1SP 234.3} " While man lived near God, the altars were lighted by fire from heaven... each brought an offering to the gate of the garden... The lamb was laid upon the altar, and fire flashed from the shining sword of the cherubim guarding the way to the Tree of Life, and the sacrifice was consumed." {SDP 136.2} Did you get it? The FIRE FROM HEAVEN that consumed every sacrifice and destroyed the wicked in Sodom and Gommorah came from the ANGEL with the firey sword that guards the way to the tree of life. But only those who have been following the path to the city would ever have a clue what I'm sharing with you right now.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: APL]
#160063
01/06/14 04:25 PM
01/06/14 04:25 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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It is you that has said that you are glad you are not like me, or kland, or Johann, or Gregory. Misrepresenting what I said won't help your cause any. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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