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Re: The Battle of the Bibles by Walter Veith [Re: Green Cochoa] #160201
01/09/14 10:22 PM
01/09/14 10:22 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
The differences in the manuscripts have made their appearance in English.
Is that a fact or a hope on your part?

Re: The Battle of the Bibles by Walter Veith [Re: kland] #160211
01/10/14 05:59 AM
01/10/14 05:59 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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That is a fact. Very much so.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Battle of the Bibles by Walter Veith [Re: kland] #160212
01/10/14 06:00 AM
01/10/14 06:00 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
Green, why don't you list the scripture, list what Ellen White says, and then see if it makes sense to you who another than Joshua it is?


You mean "Jesus?"

I think you mean Jesus.

If this is the case...why do you have a problem with the KJV saying "Jesus?"

THAT is the bigger question.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Battle of the Bibles by Walter Veith [Re: Green Cochoa] #160222
01/10/14 01:55 PM
01/10/14 01:55 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Originally Posted By: kland
Green, why don't you list the scripture, list what Ellen White says, and then see if it makes sense to you who another than Joshua it is?


You mean "Jesus?"

I think you mean Jesus.

If this is the case...why do you have a problem with the KJV saying "Jesus?"

THAT is the bigger question.
Because it IS Jesus who gives them rest and Joshua who failed to give them rest. That's why both the Bible and Ellen White says it is another than Joshua. I suspect you think Ellen White's goal in writing that is to show the verse was wrong.

Why don't you list the scripture, list what Ellen White says, and then see if it makes sense to you who another than Joshua it is?

Re: The Battle of the Bibles by Walter Veith [Re: Green Cochoa] #160224
01/10/14 02:05 PM
01/10/14 02:05 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
The differences in the manuscripts have made their appearance in English.
Is that a fact or a hope on your part?
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
That is a fact. Very much so.
Could you please show it? Show where the English word from the Greek/Hebrew word of one version comes from a different Greek/Hebrew word in another version.

For instance, since you listed this example, please show it here:
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
kland,

Would you like a few examples of what revisions are being made? Perhaps you would like to identify some of my "pet English words." Here are a few examples.
KJV
Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name?

Revision
Why is it that you ask for my name?

Re: The Battle of the Bibles by Walter Veith [Re: dedication] #160229
01/10/14 02:50 PM
01/10/14 02:50 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: APL


Hm - -
KJV Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest...
KJV Heb 4:8(margin) For if Joshua had given them rest...


Yeshua --the name is rendered Jesus or Joshua, so one must look to context as to whether it is referring to Joshua (the one who took Moses place) or Jesus our Savior. The name is actually the same.
NOW dedication, can you see the problem that Green is having? "Jesus" in Hebrews 4:8, as it is says in the KJV, can only mean Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah. It cannot mean Joshua that led Israel into the promised land. The same with Acts 7:45.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: The Battle of the Bibles by Walter Veith [Re: APL] #160240
01/11/14 11:07 AM
01/11/14 11:07 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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You mean, Jesus led Israel into the Promised Land, right?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Battle of the Bibles by Walter Veith [Re: Green Cochoa] #160241
01/11/14 11:10 AM
01/11/14 11:10 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: kland
KJV
Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name?

Revision
Why is it that you ask for my name?


The distinction in the above case is not the source language. It is the target language. The meaning is entirely unchanged.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Battle of the Bibles by Walter Veith [Re: Green Cochoa] #160299
01/13/14 04:32 PM
01/13/14 04:32 PM
K
kland  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
That's very odd. I thought you had listed them to show how the meaning was changed. Maybe someone convinced you it was not changed?

Anyway, pick your best verse, your very best one, which shows a change of meaning between versions, and

Show where the English word from the Greek/Hebrew word of one version comes from a different Greek/Hebrew word in another version.

Re: The Battle of the Bibles by Walter Veith [Re: kland] #160305
01/14/14 02:01 AM
01/14/14 02:01 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
kland,

Perhaps I have not been sufficiently clear in my purposes. I have more than one purpose.

1) To have a "modern" translation from the Majority Text.
2) To adhere as closely as possible to the original wording.

For the most part, the KJV translation can form a good base, having been translated from the Majority Text and having many tools available for research into the original Hebrew/Greek words from which each KJV word is translated. At times, such as in the Ten Commandments where the KJV mistranslated the Hebrew word as "kill," a word is changed which alters the meaning of the text (murder). At times, the words are changed simply to update them to modern equivalents, with no change of meaning.

In other words, I want a modern translation that improves upon best of the Majority Text translations available in English, and is more readable at the same time.

For example, we might change words like "apothecaries" to "herbalists," and "apparelled" to "dressed." These word replacements serve only to make the text more readable, without significantly changing the meaning.

So, while some word changes might adjust the meaning, others will be simply updating the language to a more understandable word which has the same meaning as the archaic one. As the Hebrew/Greek words behind each are consulted before a change is made, it can be considered a retranslation to a certain extent--though I would not propose to claim it is a full retranslation.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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