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Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment?
[Re: kland]
#160380
01/15/14 05:39 AM
01/15/14 05:39 AM
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Let me say it another way. The sealing process is taking place now, however, the FINAL act of sealing that 144,000th person is most likely the vision that Ezekiel saw and yet to come obviously. Keep in mind , our finite minds cannot understand every detail. But we can see the overall picture and what will transpire and the general time frames.
Let's not get lost in all the fine points but rather keep foremost in mind the great main points.
1) Decide to "sell-out" to the Lord and become a candidate for the 144,000 within the SDA church. By that I mean watch our walk closely , praying to Him to help us overcome each and every wrong way and sin we do. Yes, we'll not be perfect but we are to strive for it.
2) Do as the Lord's servant said , "Let us strive with all power God has given us, to be among the 144,000." (Review and Herald, March 9, 1908)
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Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment?
[Re: Godsloveandlaw]
#160382
01/15/14 07:38 AM
01/15/14 07:38 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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A summary would be as follows: 1) We see that there is no escaping the fact that SOP clearly says that Ezekiel 9 and Rev. 7 sealing(markings) are one and the same event.(Test. to Ministers page 445) The quote connects the sealing work in both Ezekiel 9 with the sealing work in Rev. 7. Ezekiel 9 is an OT prophecy that has two fulfilments 1. The destruction coming upon Jerusalem. 2. The destruction coming upon the world. "The Saviour's prophecy concerning the visitation of judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment, of which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon his law." GC37 Before the destruction of both -- a sealing process is depicted. The first being a type of final sealing. 2) We see that they are sealed in their forehead, indicating the mind, or more precisely a knowledge of His truth understood. accepted and obeyed
. Just as soon as the people of God are sealed in their foreheads--it is not any seal or mark that can be seen, but a settling into the truth, both intellectually and spiritually, so they cannot be moved--just as soon as God's people are sealed and prepared for the shaking, it will come. Indeed, it has begun already; the judgments of God are now upon the land, Mar. 200 3)Once we know point 1, we then look closely at those two Scriptures for clues as to the unfolding of events. We see that the sealings are given to those ONLY who are sighing and crying for the abominations done in the midst (church and our own lives). Then we also note that they are given to His people BEFORE the release of the winds, not after or during (this is key to understand--BEFORE) The "sealing" is not a noun, it is a verb, and it is a process that takes place -- a settling into truth. God is waiting for His people to settle into His truth to the point where they will not be moved. These have the "seal" of God. That means they are HIS. Yes, this must take place before the final winds of strife are released. 4) The winds symbolize specifically the Sunday law decree. We see proof of this from Test. for the Church, vol. 5, p.152. So we see that the Sunday law cannot form until all the 144,000 are sealed. Actually the quote is talking about not buying or selling except one takes the mark of the beast. Thus the Sunday crises there is already in serious persecution against God's people. Indeed, those who are not settled in the truth, will not be able to stand when that kind of pressure comes. So yes, a person must be settled in the truth prior. And we know that Ezekiel church judgment is the same event. So obviously the slain in the church will not be able to live to see the "release" of the 4 winds (Sunday law. In other words the close of probation for the church. This is a jump in logic that is not supported. We have many clear quotes that church members will be leaving the church and joining the persecutors during that time. How could they do that if they are not alive? Here is an example: "The work which the church has failed to do in a time of peace and prosperity she will have to do in a terrible crisis under most discouraging, forbidding circumstances. The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith. And at that time the superficial, conservative class, whose influence has steadily retarded the progress of the work, will renounce the faith and take their stand with its avowed enemies, toward whom their sympathies have long been tending. These apostates will then manifest the most bitter enmity, doing all in their power to oppress and malign their former brethren and to excite indignation against them. 5T 463 When we study closely Ezekiel 9 we see that Ezekiel was blown away by the destruction he saw of the angels upon God's church. "Ah, Lord God! Will you destroy ALL the remnant of Israel in pouring out Your fury on Jerusalem?"(9.8)This shows no doubt a vast destruction. Then we see EGW confirm that those would survive to the end are few. (Christian Service, p.41) and (Test.for the Church, vol. 1, p.608-609) And the Lord Himself ("few find the way", Matt.7:13-14) Ezekiel was shown the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians. That was the first fulfilment. The second destruction is the destruction of the world. Christian Service page 41 is saying that not one in twenty members in the church are prepared to close their earthly history. This isn't talking about some "slaughter" but about people dying (as everyone does sooner or later) without having fully committed themselves to God. But the point is still valid in some respects -- for when the crises comes those who are not anchored will be shaken into the enemies camp -- The church will appear to fall, even people who looked like they were solid will leave. Now it's quite possible that God allows some devastation to befall our wayward institutions -- I won't be surprised at all, but your application of Ezekiel's destruction is on a wrong timetable. So once we know this , we can ask why is the church judgment needed before the world's probation closes? When we study deeply the Scriptures and SOP we see that the only reason that can be understood is that the "outpouring of His Spirit" can only come upon a clean church. EGW says beyond doubt that "only those who overcome" by the Lord can be "permitted" to participate in the Loud Cry (Review and Herald, Nov. 19, 1908 ) Gods spirit fell upon the true followers of Christ BEFORE Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans. A separation had occurred -- and the group following Christ had purified hearts. They gave their "loud cry" beginning in Jerusalem, and when driven out of Jerusalem, they continued to sound the message to the rest of the world. I think the same will happen again. God's true followers will be pure. The Holy Spirit will fall upon them. The first to hear the "loud cry" will be the church. But what happens? Most will not bear the "straight testimony" and separate themselves. They are not killed, they don't want any connection with those they think fanatics, especially as it means persecution and hardship. It's called the great shaking. " I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen, and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God's people. [CET 176]
Said the angel, "List ye!" Soon I heard a voice like many musical instruments all sounding in perfect strains,...My attention was then turned to the company I had seen, who were mightily shaken. I was shown those whom I had before seen weeping and praying in agony of spirit. The company of guardian angels around them had been doubled, and they were clothed with an armor from their head to their feet. They moved in exact order, like a company of soldiers. Their countenances expressed the severe conflict which they had endured, the agonizing struggle they had passed through. Yet their features, marked with severe internal anguish, now shone with the light and glory of heaven. They had obtained the victory, and it called forth from them the deepest gratitude, and holy, sacred joy. {CET 176.3} 177 The numbers of this company had lessened. Some had been shaken out and left by the way. The careless and indifferent, who did not join with those who prized victory and salvation enough to perseveringly plead and agonize for it, did not obtain it, and they were left behind in darkness, and their places were immediately filled by others taking hold of the truth and coming into the ranks. Evil angels still pressed around them, but could have no power over them. {CET 177.1} I heard those clothed with the armor speak forth the truth with great power. It had effect. Many had been bound; some wives by their husbands, and some children by their parents. The honest who had been prevented from hearing the truth now eagerly laid hold upon it. All fear of their relatives was gone, and the truth alone was exalted to them. They had been hungering and thirsting for truth; it was dearer and more precious than life. I asked what had made this great change. An angel answered, "It is the latter rain, the refreshing from the presence of the Lord, the loud cry of the third angel." {CET 177.2} }" That is the way the church will be cleansed. Not the way you picture it. As I've mentioned, the church that the servants of God call people into in the time of the Loud Cry, can only be a clean church. It's foolish to think He'll allow us to call the people of the world into a sinful church (such as we have now in the SDA). Can you imagine the servants of God calling out the people in "Babylon" to come into our church, which runs hospitals around the world, allowing abortion upon demand?? Who we kidding here?? Certainly not God! As I've mentioned earlier, I won't be surprised if some disaster falls on these wayward institutions, but that is a far cry from some belief that all but 144,000 Adventists will be killed. Those unsettled and without anchor people, will not want anything to do with Saturday, Sabbath keepers, when the crises comes. They will leave. While the sealing is going on now and reaches its height before the big Sunday crises, the rest of Ezekiel does NOT reach it's fulfilment till after probation has closed FOR EVERYONE. Read it in Great Controversy -- The chapter that describes God's deliverance of His people from the death decree. The heavens open and God's hand with the commandments are seen. " The minister who has sacrificed truth to gain the favor of men now discerns the character and influence of his teachings.... "Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture! . . . Behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings." "Howl, ye shepherds, and cry;...The people see that they have been deluded. They accuse one another of having led them to destruction; but all unite in heaping their bitterest condemnation upon the ministers..... The mark of deliverance has been set upon those "that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done." Now the angel of death goes forth, represented in Ezekiel's vision by the men with the slaughtering weapons, to whom the command is given: "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary." Says the prophet: "They began at the ancient men which were before the house." Ezekiel 9:1-6. The work of destruction begins among those who have professed to be the spiritual guardians of the people. The false watchmen are the first to fall. There are none to pity or to spare. Men, women, maidens, and little children perish together. {GC 656.2} So we see plainly this takes place AFTER probation has closed, after the plagues have fallen, when God delivers His people from the death decree.
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Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#160399
01/15/14 02:11 PM
01/15/14 02:11 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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M: I wish I could believe things are wrapping up quickly. But I don't. I see no reason to believe it. I'm fine with it, though. I don't have to believe it to fight the good fight of faith (not saying anyone here does). I am perfectly okay with thinking I might live and die of old age before Jesus returns.
GC: Mike, read the following passage, at least up to through bolded section. Thank you for the excellent passage. Seems as though there only two classes of SDAs - 1) those who are earnestly waiting, working, watching, and refusing to accumulate unnecessary earthly things, and 2) those who are weary of waiting, working, watching, and busily accumulating unnecessary earthly things. Although I see no evidence in the signs of the times to suggest Jesus is more likely to return now than ever before, I know in my heart it could happen suddenly, rapidly. It thrills my heart to know Jesus will return someday soon. But believing it will happen in my lifetime is not the source of my strength and motivation to faithfully fight the good fight of faith. The rewards I enjoy here and now are sufficient to save me. I do not have to believe it will most definitely happen before I die of old age.
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Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment?
[Re: Godsloveandlaw]
#160410
01/15/14 08:31 PM
01/15/14 08:31 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Your welcome, God bless you.
Dedication. You are right that there is not two closings of probation. There is only one closing of probation for each class of believers.
The fact that the 144,000 are ready for the outpouring of the latter rain then they go out and proclaim the end time message with a loud cry proves they must have been judged prior to the outpouring of the Spirit.
So the professed sanctuary message church has already been judged worthy to receive the latter rain before going out to spread the good news in power.
This means the proffessed SDA church gets judged FIRST! Then those who hold on and are empowered call a vast multitude out of Babylon.
This is a biblical fact that the Holy Spirit attests to, and anyone in our faith who disreguards this message will NOT be ready.
The remnant who sigh and cry for the mess inside the true church of God right now will be those who are ready. Then the rest of church will be found wanting at the outpouring of the latter rain.
Dedication, you should be careful making judgments about prophetic statements without doing due dillagence to test the message. Be very careful because as I am claiming, this all came directly from God through His Spirit in the name of Jesus, so if I have been inspired on these issues and you have tried to disuage anyone else form embracing the truth, where does that leave you and those you disuage?
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment?
[Re: Godsloveandlaw]
#160411
01/15/14 08:38 PM
01/15/14 08:38 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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"It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner. They are professedly serving God, but they are more earnestly serving mammon. This half-and-half work is a constant denying of Christ, rather than a confessing of Christ. So many have brought into the church their own unsubdued spirit, unrefined; their spiritual taste is perverted by their own immoral, debasing corruptions, symbolizing the world in spirit, in heart, in purpose, confirming themselves in lustful practices, and are full of deception through and through in their professed Christian life. Living as sinners, claiming to be Christians! Those who claim to be Christians and will confess Christ should come out from among them and touch not the unclean thing, and be separate.... {ChS 41.1}
Then Christ gave the parable of the father and the two sons. When the father went to the first son, saying, “Go work today in my vineyard,” the son promptly answered, “I will not.” He refused to obey, and gave himself up to wicked ways and associations. But afterward he repented, and obeyed the call. {COL 274.4} The father went to the second son with the same command, “Go work today in my vineyard.” This son made reply, “I go, sir,” but he went not. {COL 275.1} In this parable the father represents God, the vineyard the church. By the two sons are represented two classes of people. The son who refused to obey the command, saying, “I will not,” represented those who were living in open transgression, who made no profession of piety, who openly refused to come under the yoke of restraint and obedience which the law of God imposes. But many of these afterward repented and obeyed the call of God. When the gospel came to them in the message of John the Baptist, “Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand,” they repented, and confessed their sins. (Matthew 3:2). {COL 275.2}
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment?
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#160416
01/16/14 12:14 AM
01/16/14 12:14 AM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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"It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner. They are professedly serving God, but they are more earnestly serving mammon. This half-and-half work is a constant denying of Christ, rather than a confessing of Christ. So many have brought into the church their own unsubdued spirit, unrefined; their spiritual taste is perverted by their own immoral, debasing corruptions, symbolizing the world in spirit, in heart, in purpose, confirming themselves in lustful practices, and are full of deception through and through in their professed Christian life. Living as sinners, claiming to be Christians! Those who claim to be Christians and will confess Christ should come out from among them and touch not the unclean thing, and be separate.... {ChS 41.1}
Then Christ gave the parable of the father and the two sons. When the father went to the first son, saying, “Go work today in my vineyard,” the son promptly answered, “I will not.” He refused to obey, and gave himself up to wicked ways and associations. But afterward he repented, and obeyed the call. {COL 274.4} The father went to the second son with the same command, “Go work today in my vineyard.” This son made reply, “I go, sir,” but he went not. {COL 275.1} In this parable the father represents God, the vineyard the church. By the two sons are represented two classes of people. The son who refused to obey the command, saying, “I will not,” represented those who were living in open transgression, who made no profession of piety, who openly refused to come under the yoke of restraint and obedience which the law of God imposes. But many of these afterward repented and obeyed the call of God. When the gospel came to them in the message of John the Baptist, “Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand,” they repented, and confessed their sins. (Matthew 3:2). {COL 275.2} The Bible put it well enough already; for there, it is written, "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof." (1 Tim. 4:1-5) --- Paul, Apostle of Our LORD, Jesus Christ ///
Last edited by James Peterson; 01/16/14 12:15 AM.
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Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment?
[Re: James Peterson]
#160419
01/16/14 12:33 AM
01/16/14 12:33 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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The fact that the 144,000 are ready for the outpouring of the latter rain then they go out and proclaim the end time message with a loud cry proves they must have been judged prior to the outpouring of the Spirit. Unless the 144,000 includes 11th hour believers who respond to the Loud Cry of the Latter Rain.
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Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment?
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#160422
01/16/14 12:45 AM
01/16/14 12:45 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,705
Canada
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When the early church in apostolic times received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, they too were judged worthy to receive it, did that mean their probation was closed?
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Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#160438
01/16/14 03:42 AM
01/16/14 03:42 AM
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We must not skip over the plain "thus saith the Lord". In Rev. 7 sealings, how many from the church does it say are sealed? 144,000. It does not say "And I saw 144,000 and others sealed". Notice it is from ALL of the tribes of Israel, that is inclusive of ALL SDA. It's one thing to wish and hope for "our" ideas to come true. "All" cannot be skipped over.
EGW gives a great Bible instruction on how we are to read it, "The language of the Bible should be explained according to it's obvious meaning, unless a symbol or figure is employed". (GC p.598)
Last edited by Godsloveandlaw; 01/16/14 03:43 AM.
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Re: What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment?
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#160439
01/16/14 03:47 AM
01/16/14 03:47 AM
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Very well said, and I concur brother. The Spirit of Truth is guiding, press on.
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