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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: kland] #160641
01/20/14 07:42 PM
01/20/14 07:42 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland


...For example, "Murder is an act of war against God's righteousness". How can one determine if someone kills someone whether they did "an act of war against God's righteousness" or they did it for "righteousness"? This seems more of a dictator type of attitude, that whoever is in charge determines whether you did right or not. Basically, there is no right or wrong other than what someone makes up as to what is in their opinion.


Your response shows where you are in your walk of faith and you cannot see it.

You like Satan have accused God to be a "dictator" because of the order of heaven. Out of all the created beings, who is more worthy of being the perfect witness? No one on this earth but Jesus who is the son of God, who came and lived here on this planet and did not fall to sin. The only one worthy to open the book of record. He has a book and it is written on the record the perfect truth of everything that has ever taken place. All He does is open it for everyone to see from the perfect perspective. Those who have been redeemed have their records expunged. Those who do not repent see the record after the rest of the universe does, just before they are punished for their rebellion against God. But EVERYONE will see the truth perfectly from our righteous God's perspective outside of our universe.

God reveals everything in His time. The judgment is for us to see that everything God saw and how He responded is perfect. It will reveal those who had faith that God knows what is best, and that ALL OF HIS JUDGMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUS! Anyone who truly knows God has already received this lesson.

For you to say that God is a dictator in how He responds to sin, shows perfectly what Spirit motivates you. It proves that what you are teaching is a feeble attempt to justify your unballanced view of God.

God has told us through His word what the truth of the matter is, and He uses very pointed words to do so in so many different ways. Anyone who does not believe in those words, who tries to erase God's view of Himself, are showing an extreem lack of faith, because faith comes by hearing the word of God. It is the antithisis of faith to try to change the truth.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: asygo] #160647
01/20/14 08:44 PM
01/20/14 08:44 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: APL
In going into Canaan, the people were to march. In taking Jericho, the people were to march.


God intended to show the Israelites that the conquest of Canaan was not to be ascribed to them. The captain of the Lord’s host overcame Jericho. He and his angels were engaged in the conquest. Christ commanded the armies of Heaven to throw down the walls of Jericho, and prepare an entrance for Joshua and the armies of Israel. God, in this wonderful miracle, not only strengthened the faith of his people in his power to subdue their enemies, but rebuked their former unbelief. – {1SP 351.1}

What did Jesus want the armies of Israel to do after He and His angels threw down the walls? Were they to just wait as the Canaanites walked out on their own?

The following quote seems to imply that love and justice, not sin and malice, needed something a bit more proactive.

And both love and justice demanded the prompt execution of these rebels against God and foes to man. – {PP 492.2}

So terribly blinded had they become by transgression. The Lord had never commanded them to "go up and fight." It was not His purpose that they should gain the land by warfare, but by strict obedience to His commands. {PP 392.3}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Mountain Man] #160650
01/20/14 10:56 PM
01/20/14 10:56 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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This seems to be clear to me that the "bowels of the earth were the Lord's arsenal, from which....." were directly used by God to bring about the world-wide flood that killed all but those who were in the ark.

Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
1. Jesus employs fire and water to punish and kill. "The bowels of the earth were the Lord's arsenal, from which he drew forth the weapons he employed in the destruction of the old world. Waters in the bowels of the earth gushed forth, and united with the waters from heaven, to accomplish the work of destruction. Since the flood, God has used both water and fire in the earth as his agents to destroy wicked cities. {1SP 84.3}

2. Jesus uses His enemies to punish and kill. "God will use His enemies as instruments to punish those who have followed their own pernicious ways whereby the truth of God has been misrepresented, misjudged, and dishonored. {LDE 242.3}

Did APL and kland ever directly respond to the above EGW quotes?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: Daryl] #160655
01/21/14 12:39 AM
01/21/14 12:39 AM
APL  Offline
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Western, USA
Were not the fiery serpents part of God's arsenal? Yep. How did He use them? How was He involved in sending them?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #160657
01/21/14 12:54 AM
01/21/14 12:54 AM
asygo  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
Couldn't God have made all the serpents harmless? Then, even the Israelites were disobedient, they wouldn't have died.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: asygo] #160659
01/21/14 01:01 AM
01/21/14 01:01 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Daryl is correct, he sees the two ways God executes justice, that God both allows satan to torment in result of sin, and executes judgment Himself to erase sin.

APL only sees one side and denies the accountability of God in the process.

God takes full responsibility for His creation. He had to suffer His own wrath to forgive us because of the way righteousness demands justice and He chose to offer mercy interacting in Christ to show us His infinite love.

Why is there such a problem in the church that claims to be lead by the Spirit?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #160661
01/21/14 01:23 AM
01/21/14 01:23 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Were not the fiery serpents part of God's arsenal? Yep. How did He use them? How was He involved in sending them?


How did God use the earth to swallow up the rebels in the camp?
Did He just withdraw His Spirit and the earth fell away? How did Sodom and Gamorah get destroyed? The angels from God are the fires, or lightnings from heaven. The angel at the gate to the Garden has the righteousness of God through His Holy word in the form of a sword to defend paradise from intrusion. He commands other angels in the name of the Lord because of every word that comes from the mouth of Jesus is indellable. Jesus speaks and the angels do as He commands. There is perfect order in heaven and Not one sinner has crossed the gate and eaten of the tree of life. God speaks and it is so. This is faith where the power of God is at the service of His creatures.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: asygo] #160663
01/21/14 01:32 AM
01/21/14 01:32 AM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
Couldn't God have made all the serpents harmless? Then, even the Israelites were disobedient, they wouldn't have died.
Did God make the fiery serpents dangerous in the first place???


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: jamesonofthunder] #160664
01/21/14 01:49 AM
01/21/14 01:49 AM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
Originally Posted By: APL
Were not the fiery serpents part of God's arsenal? Yep. How did He use them? How was He involved in sending them?


How did God use the earth to swallow up the rebels in the camp?
Did He just withdraw His Spirit and the earth fell away? How did Sodom and Gamorah get destroyed? The angels from God are the fires, or lightnings from heaven. The angel at the gate to the Garden has the righteousness of God through His Holy word in the form of a sword to defend paradise from intrusion. He commands other angels in the name of the Lord because of every word that comes from the mouth of Jesus is indellable. Jesus speaks and the angels do as He commands. There is perfect order in heaven and Not one sinner has crossed the gate and eaten of the tree of life. God speaks and it is so. This is faith where the power of God is at the service of His creatures.


Consider Hosea 11:8 How shall I give you up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver you, Israel? how shall I make you as Admah? how shall I set you as Zeboim? my heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3) [Re: APL] #160667
01/21/14 02:13 AM
01/21/14 02:13 AM
asygo  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo
Couldn't God have made all the serpents harmless? Then, even the Israelites were disobedient, they wouldn't have died.
Did God make the fiery serpents dangerous in the first place???

No, but I'm pretty sure He knew they were dangerous at that time.

If I was leading a child through a pit I knew was full of dangerous snakes, then I withdrew my protection because the child rebelled against my instructions, knowing that the venomous snakes would attack, I think most would say I was responsible for the inevitable outcome. And if I had the ability to make the snakes harmless but chose not to.....


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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