Re 8:2 And I saw the seven angels who stood before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.

Re 8:5 And the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar, and cast it into the earth. And voices and thunderings and lightnings and an earthquake occurred.
Re 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

If anyone thinks the trumpets only sound in the past, then what about verse 5 with the censer? If that is not about probation closing in the future or otherwise pointing to the future, what is it?

Would this mean the seven golden vials are about the Church, "the Bible says so", too?

Re 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave to the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who lives forever and ever.

Praise the Lord brother Mark,
The Spirit of Truth is guiding. When I first saw those explanations, I was like, "Wow, this is something quite unique and different." But as I studied it(prayed about it) seriously, the pieces came together.

There is a complete explanation of that issue you raised. Have to go to work but we respond when time allows. I can tell you there is a unique answer here as well. Just like the rest of those explanations.

The truths and interpretations, MUST be guided by the Spirit of Truth (John 16:13) and those who do His will are the ones who can discern them as intended(John 7:17). That is why the vast Christendom can't figure much out correctly (Prophecies). One interpretation here, one there. All of them having holes in them except one.

You are correct that the seven trumpets are blown by the seven angels of the seven dispensations of the Christian church, but the trumpet is blown as a judgment against the fallen church.

In other words, the judgments against Papal ROME are brought to light from the persecution they bring on the true church.

Every time there was a judgment against the fallen church it always comes as a result of their persecution of God's true people.

Historically most Adventist scholars believe the Trumps were fulfilled mainly in the past, beginning during the time of the 1,260 years of persecution in the dark ages up till the 2nd coming of the Lord, but there is more than enough biblical and Testimonies support for an end time fulfillment also, during the time of great tribulation when the daughters have joined the Mother in the persecution of the saints. So there is a fulfillment in the mothers reign in the Dark Ages, and there is a fulfillment in the days of the shaking and great persecution leading up to the plagues. I believe they have already begun since 9/11. We are seeing the final woa in the rising of the children of Ishmael.

What Kland has quoted is the best biblical support for the future fulfillment of the trumps. The casting of the censer into the earth is at the end of probation when Michael stands. But to be fair the majority of the biblical scholars say Revelation chapter 8 is not linear between 5-6. Repeat and enlarge... the most common theme of Revelation.

I believe it is for the effect of a double fulfillment that verse 5 appears to be out of place.

But I also believe the woes are summed into one large movement in these last days. The woes were judgments against the fallen church, because of their atrocities against the true church. God raised up the Muhammadan people to fulfill the prophecies of God for the great nation of Ishmael. So in these last days God is using the same powers against the people who have unified with the Harlot.

Also let's remember Mrs White does write that the SEVEN trumps have to sound one after another in the last days. She just says "trump after trump" which gives no specific number to look for.

Since the days of the first proclamation of the three angels messages many of the same things have come to pass in judgment against the fallen protestant churches.

"The main problem here in this fifth trumpet, 1st woe, is that the king of the locusts is Abaddon aka Apollyon which is Lucifer. I'm sure you've noticed this but how do you deal with it?"


Rev. 9:11. "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

Genuine Christians, as subjects of the kingdom of Christ, have over them Christ, their King. Ruling over them in Old Testament time (1 Cor. 10:1-4) as well as in New Testament time, He is therefore King over them in both periods. Consequently the Old Testament Scriptures being originally written in the Hebrew tongue give Him the name Abaddon, whereas the New Testament Scriptures, being originally written in the Greek, give Him the name Apollyon.

In the blazing light of this symbol, intensifying the illumination from the whole series of symbols of which it is a part, and which no human mind could either have devised or thus rightly interpreted, Christ is clearly seen to be King of His people in both the Old and the New Testament periods, and Author of the Scriptures in both the Hebrew and the Greek.

And from this fact it follows that as He is "the Word" (the Bible in human form), His Hebrew name, Abaddon, is also the name of the Old Testament Scriptures, and His Greek name, Apollyon, is also the name of the New Testament Scriptures.

Showing that he recognized Christ's sovereignty over the church not only in the New Testament period but also in the Old Testament period, Paul, in his epistle to the Corinthians, declared: "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were...baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea:...and did all drink the same
spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1 Cor. 10:1-4.

Woe to him who accepts the one Testament and casts aside the other, pays no attention to either, or exalts tradition above both!

Abaddon, Christ's name in the Hebrew, signifying Him as a "destroyer," shows that in the Old Testament period He simply destroyed many of His enemies; whereas Apollyon, His name in the Greek, signifying Him as an "exterminator," shows that in the New Testament period He will exterminate all the wicked. (What beautiful precision of connotation in these symbolic appellations!) And this exterminatory work is vividly pictured in the climactic scene:

"And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great." Rev. 19:15-18.

To those, therefore, who accept Christ as their King, He is a Savior, while to those who refuse to have Him rule over them (Luke 19:14), He is a destroyer. Hence, accordingly, the curses, or judgments, fall (as the trumpets reveal) upon those who reject the teachings and the authority of the Bible, and who as a result do not have the seal.

These solemn facts gravely admonish us not to forget the Bible's warning that our treatment of It will bring one of two results -- death or life.

Found the following that compliments the above from a poster by the name of "am123"-

“And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.”
-Revelation 9:1

"Is the warden of a prison a prisoner himself? Is the warden of a prison a good guy or a bad guy? Abaddon is a good guy. This star with the key to the bottomless pit in REV 9:1 is the angel who lays hold of Satan and binds him for a thousand years in CHP 20 of REV:

“And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,”
—REV 20:1-2

and then afterwards kills the the dragon tossing him into the lake of fire:

10: And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
—REV 20:10

There's no such moment in time as the close of probation. But that is another subject entirely. Suffice it to say that the action of the angel typifies cleansing. "Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged." (Is. 6:6-7)

Let the Bible interpret itself. And every man be silent.

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By the time the seven plagues will be ready to be poured out, the gospel would have reached the entire world. That means that the entire world would have become the Church and God would then be judging His people, separating the good from the bad and punishing the bad. So, yes; both the trumpets and the plagues are about the Church.

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No. The trumpets are blown AGAINST THE PEOPLE OUTSIDE the church. The Church is declaring war on the world. The Fifth trumpet and the sixth are about God using the vagabonds in the Church to subject the world. A good example of this is the US Army, (supposedly Christian), waging war in the Middle East in attempts to bring democracy and freedom to those countries, the same as was done in Communist Eastern Europe.

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