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Re: APL believes Jesus commanded murder. Is he right?
[Re: asygo]
#160943
01/28/14 06:03 PM
01/28/14 06:03 PM
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OP
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APL is saying that God did NOT command Saul to kill Agag and the Amalekites. Astounding. How can anyone make such a claim? The Bible is too plain to be misunderstood. 1 Samuel
15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember [that] which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid [wait] for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
15:9 But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all [that was] good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing [that was] vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.
15:10 Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying,
15:11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul [to be] king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.
15:32 Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him delicately. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past.
15:33 And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.
How anyone can read the passage posted above and conclude Jesus did NOT command King Saul to kill Amalek is beyond comprehension. On the other hand, it is equally mind-blowing someone can conclude Jesus commanded murder.
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Re: APL believes Jesus commanded murder. Is he right?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#160945
01/28/14 06:07 PM
01/28/14 06:07 PM
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APL, you digress - again. No one here disputes the truthfulness of the passages you posted above.
However, you still have not posted passages you believe proves Jesus commanded murder. Please do so. No digression at all. It shows your understanding of the situation is completely wrong.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: APL believes Jesus commanded murder. Is he right?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#160946
01/28/14 06:10 PM
01/28/14 06:10 PM
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APL is saying that God did NOT command Saul to kill Agag and the Amalekites. Astounding. How can anyone make such a claim? The Bible is too plain to be misunderstood. asygo is making a false claim. But you MM still don't understand the situation, from leaving Egypt onward. You fail to understand why where was a king in the first place. Same problem right from the time they left Egypt.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: APL believes Jesus commanded murder. Is he right?
[Re: kland]
#160948
01/28/14 06:14 PM
01/28/14 06:14 PM
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It is my opinion, why MM, Green, James, and others have not and will not make such a distinction between murder and killing that even an eighth grader can determine whether someone "murdered" or "killed" is because then they would have to say that God murders. This is why some keep it vague and post page after page of ramblings of everything but the distinction. This way, they cannot be held to any specifics, and if the claim was made that they are saying God "murders", they will claim they were being misrepresented. Keep it vague, blurry, undefined, then they can weasel out of any accountability. I had to read that again because I could've sworn you were describing APL. In any case, APL finally clarified that he believes God did NOT command Saul to kill the Amalekites. That it creates serious problems with the narrative is another matter. How about you, kland? Do you believe God commanded Saul to kill the Amalekites?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: APL believes Jesus commanded murder. Is he right?
[Re: APL]
#160949
01/28/14 06:24 PM
01/28/14 06:24 PM
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APL is saying that God did NOT command Saul to kill Agag and the Amalekites. Astounding. How can anyone make such a claim? The Bible is too plain to be misunderstood. asygo is making a false claim. When you said No, I thought you meant God did NOT command it. Sorry about that. Let me fix that: APL believes that God DID command Saul to kill the Amalekites. How's that?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: APL believes Jesus commanded murder. Is he right?
[Re: asygo]
#160951
01/28/14 06:33 PM
01/28/14 06:33 PM
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[quote=asygo]APL is saying that God did NOT command Saul to kill Agag and the Amalekites. Astounding. How can anyone make such a claim? The Bible is too plain to be misunderstood. asygo is making a false claim.
When you said No, I thought you meant God did NOT command it. Sorry about that.
Let me fix that: APL believes that God DID command Saul to kill the Amalekites.
How's that?
Now tell us WHY God gave the commands He did.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: APL believes Jesus commanded murder. Is he right?
[Re: asygo]
#160952
01/28/14 06:35 PM
01/28/14 06:35 PM
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APL, you have not posted passages you believe depict Jesus commanding His chosen people to murder criminals and enemy combatants.
You seem to think your idea Jesus never intended to command killing somehow softens the fact He did indeed command capital punishment and war. You also seem to think the fact Jesus gave laws regulating divorce somehow softens the fact He commanded corporal punishment and war. You also seem to think the fact Jesus never wanted kings somehow softens the fact He commanded killing.
Please set the record straight. Please post passages you believe depict Jesus commanding murder. Otherwise, your claim is based on nothing more than your word. You have led me and Arnold to believe you think Jesus did NOT command King Saul to utterly slay men, women, children, and infants.
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Re: APL believes Jesus commanded murder. Is he right?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#160953
01/28/14 06:39 PM
01/28/14 06:39 PM
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You titled the thread - surely you have facts to support YOUR thread.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: APL believes Jesus commanded murder. Is he right?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#160954
01/28/14 06:54 PM
01/28/14 06:54 PM
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APL, why Jesus commanded killing criminals and combatants is not the question here. The question here is - APL believes Jesus commanded murder. Is he right?
You believe Jesus commanded murder. You believe Jesus commanded doing something you believe is a violation of the Law of God. You believe Jesus commanded sinning. I disagree.
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Re: APL believes Jesus commanded murder. Is he right?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#160956
01/28/14 07:01 PM
01/28/14 07:01 PM
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"And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal." APL, you say Samuel sinned and did evil. Yet the Bible says King Saul "sinned" and did "evil" because he did not kill King Agag.
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