OK - - WHY did Israel have a king???? It was because Israel was so faithful and trusting of God, right? Look at the big picture, take the Bible as a whole. If you take one isolated fact out of the full context, you come to the wrong conclusion.

You're jumping the gun there. The first question was whether or not you believe God commanded killing. Now you have clarified that you do.

WHY He commanded it may not be germane to this thread. We'll see how it develops.

What IS germane is your belief that God commanded murder. So let's look at that.

Given that God commanded Saul to kill the Amalekites, is that the same as saying that God commanded murder?

First asygo - it is MM making the statements in the title. He can provide the support if he wishes. Second, the WHY is absolutely germane. Without knowing the why, makes the situation not understandable. A text without the context, is a pretext to a proof text. I prefer to read the Bible as a whole.

APL, you have not actually said - I believe Jesus commanded King Saul to kill men, women, children, and infants. Do you?

The truth is - You have never posted a passage you believe depicts Jesus commanded killing criminals and combatants. Please do so.

DO NOT POST ANYTHING ELSE HERE UNTIL YOU ADDRESS THIS POST.

I sense some apprehension on your part with accepting what MM has said in the title. Given that you believe God commanded killing, you must see a distinction between killing and murder. I thought you and kland believe there is no distinction between the two. Your responses have been somewhat surprising. I guess I'm having difficulty pinning down exactly what you are saying.

But MM points out that you have not really made a stand whether or not Jesus commanded Saul to kill. I'll defer to his request for your response.

MM makes the statement in the title of this thread, then asks me to prove it. I find that interesting...

God gave instructions for divorce: true or false? TRUE. Does this mean that God condones, desires, wants, approves of divorce? NO. God HATES divorce. Yet, He did give instructions for divorce. WHY? MM things this is an irrelevant question, and so dismisses it. It is not irrelevant, and is in fact revelatory as to how God works with those the refuse to fully follow Him, those that reject Him, those that despise Him.

The history of Israel is one of constant lack of faith and rebellion. The fact that Israel had a king showed a rejection of God. Yet God did not abandon them. The instructions that God gave Israel were often to reduce the damage of their wayward, faithless ways. And people look at this and say, YES - that is what God wants! He commanded it. That proves it! NO, it does not.

A modern metaphor is of Godly parents with a promiscuous child. They could let the child run wild, or they can inform the child of methods to minimize the damage his actions are leading to. Informing a child of barrier methods, and birth control in no ways means the parents wholly approve of the direction, goals and actions of the child.

The people demanded meat in the wilderness. God gave them that which was not good for them. Many died! Does this mean that God approves of the meat HE gave them? Not in the least! Read the Bible as a whole.

You've been swimming with the Red Herrings so much that you have confused yourself! Let's make it simple so we all know where we stand.

T/F: God commanded Saul to kill the Amalekites.
T/F: God commanded Saul to murder the Amalekites.

My answers: T, F. Quick, easy.

I'm guessing 2 non-events will now occur:
1. APL will have the same answer as mine, but will refuse to say it as quickly and clearly. Instead, he will ask a whole bunch of questions about things which God *allowed* but did not *command* to be done.
2. kland will not ask APL to articulate the distinction between killing and murder.

I hope my guesses are way off the mark.

The simple example of God commanding Saul to kill the Amalekites quite concisely illustrates the distinction between killing and murder, if you ask me.

Remember the Amalekites!



As I see it, APL and kland have some options:

1) Accept that God commanded killing, and that killing is different from murder
2) Admit that God commanded murder (which is sin)
3) Claim that "God" in the verse was really "Satan" (thus turning God into the devil)
4) Fidget, filibuster, throw out red herrings, use ad hominem, do anything and everything to avoid answering any of these questions, like the Pharisees of Jesus' time

Which is it, APL and kland?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

God never commanded people to divorce, yet He commanded Saul to destroy the Amalekites. Two different things.

"APL believes Jesus commanded murder. Is he right? For example, Jesus commanded holy men of God, like Moses, Joshua, Samuel, etc to kill criminals and enemy combatants. APL labels it murder. Is he right?"

Of course not.

Murder and killing are two completely different actions. Murder is undeserved and killing is deserved.

Again, God can read the hearts of men and rightly discern what action is proper. And since has always wanted to saved life, He would never murder anyone.

Consequently, since all that exist is created by God, and all that exist is owned and maintained by God, all who reject God must be killed because there isn't anywhere for these people to live happy lives. Light and darkness can never co-exist!