I'm not, as it's difficult for me to understand English by just listening (not watching). I'm just following the discussion in this thread.

Watching is definitely easier than listening, especially when he gets into some hairy details. But I recommend it for those who are able to put in the time and effort. He has some very good ideas.

Well, who put these suppressants in the fruit, God or Satan? Were these suppressants a nutritious part of their balanced diet? Were the suppressants harmful?

Serious questions - - right...

You, and others reading this, might fail to grasp the gravity of these questions, so let me give a synopsis.

Melashenko said: iniquity = mobile genetic elements (MGEs)
Melashenko said: sin = change in our information system
asygo asked: So which came first, Adam eating the fruit or Adam having MGEs?
APL said: Adam - the eating of the fruit is what gave him the MGEs.
APL said: MGEs are the works the devil. MGEs are the cause of all sickness, all aging, and all death, exactly what sin does.
APL said: The MGEs were in the fruit.
APL said: What was in the fruit did not need to be lethal! BUT - what was in the fruit could have been devices to block cellular defense mechanisms, where by Satan could then implant other weapons, opening the door as it were.
asygo said: But if that was the case, then the fruit had in it MGEs that changed Adam's information system. And regardless of its immediate effects, this paradigm considers that change to be sin. Hence, the fruit contained sin, which ALWAYS kills.
asygo said: If there was something in the fruit that suppressed Adam's cellular defense mechanisms, that's harmful, isn't it? That means that either God's perfect creation had harmful elements, or Satan was able to sow his evil seeds in Eden before Adam disobeyed. Both options are unpalatable.
APL said: Was it poison, that would cause death? Nope. Was it Satan's goal to kill Adam and Eve? Nope.
asygo said: Well, who put these suppressants in the fruit, God or Satan? Were these suppressants a nutritious part of their balanced diet? Were the suppressants harmful?
APL said: Serious questions - - right...

Yes, serious questions. This paradigm/theory/conjecture says that MGEs are sin and always lethal. Now, you say that MGEs were in the fruit BEFORE Adam sinned. That means:
1. God put in harmful substances in the fruit.
2. Satan was able to corrupt creation before sin entered.

To say that these MGEs were not lethal contradicts a whole lot of tenets of this theory.

If MGE are the work of the devil, then why do you ask if God put them in the fruit? That is what you just asked. Thus, is that a serious question? I think not! You have made one more extension for which is not necessarily true. That is, are MGEs "always" lethal. The MGEs being in the fruit or around the fruit does not mean that God put them there. The fallacy of your supposition also was that Satan was able to corrupt creation before Adam sin. In deed, EGW says it was when Adam at the fruit that Satan sewed the seeds into the system. What was in the fruit, we don't know, I was not there. We do know, that no eating of the fruit, no fall. And God is not arbitrary. Prohibiting the eating of the fruit was no arbitrary command, just as the Sabbath is no arbitrary commandment.

It was absolutely a serious question. You have proven harder to pin down than a wet fish. It's not easy trying to get you to say anything definitive. And since I don't want to misrepresent you, I'll ask very basic questions. And I note that you wrote an entire paragraph without answering Yes or No. You see why you are so easily misunderstood?


Didn't Melashenko say that sin = a change in the information system? Didn't he say that MGEs = iniquity? Didn't he say that if the MGEs are not fixed, a person cannot be saved?

How much more lethal do you want?


MGEs are "engineered" according to Melashenko; there's no evolutionary process to explain them. There are only two engineers to choose from: God or Satan. Hence, either God made them or Satan did. If you see another option, go ahead and put it in the hat.

Whether it was in, or on, or around, or near the fruit, it doesn't really matter. If Satan was able to add an MGE into Eden before sin, I think that's a problem.


There is something inherently wrong with breaking the Sabbath. Are you implying that there was something inherently wrong with the fruit?

If something is not good, then who made it? God or Satan? You see why it is your question is not a serious question? Do you really believe that God made something bad???

I'm sorry, but I find this statement very naive. Sin did not originate in the Garden of Eden on earth. It originated before the creation of the earth. Satan was ready to corrupt all of God's creation. EGW writes, The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. The grass of the place was living green, and the birds there warbled a sweet song. The inhabitants of the place were of all sizes; they were noble, majestic, and lovely. They bore the express image of Jesus, and their countenances beamed with holy joy, expressive of the freedom and happiness of the place. I asked one of them why they were so much more lovely than those on the earth. The reply was, "We have lived in strict obedience to the commandments of God, and have not fallen by disobedience, like those on the earth." Then I saw two trees, one looked much like the tree of life in the city. The fruit of both looked beautiful, but of one they could not eat. They had power to eat of both, but were forbidden to eat of one. Then my attending angel said to me, "None in this place have tasted of the forbidden tree; but if they should eat, they would fall." {EW 39.3}

Had sin entered these other worlds? Only at their tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. If they had eaten of their tree, their whole creation would have also fallen as it did on earth.

Slippery indeed.

When God said that everything was "very good" after creation, was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil lethal to eat?