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Re: Some signs will happen again?
[Re: Godsloveandlaw]
#161204
02/02/14 11:58 PM
02/02/14 11:58 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
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Godslove, regarding the five months of the fifth trumpet you stated: The "five months" are in consequence figurative time, and extend from the crucifixion to a time when "death shall flee". To switch from the year-day principle that established the time periods we need a scriptural basis. It was that principle that glued the prophetic puzzle together for the Millerites. (James, this was long before Ellen White had her first vision. Miller and associates were confirmed in their understanding on the issue by the witness of the scriptures and the Spirit.) The historic interpretation of the trumpets are sound that are set out by Miller and other pioneers. Where we have latitude is in their reapplication to the future. Regarding the unsealed seeking death, the text says: Rev 9:4 And it was said unto them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree, but only such men as have not the seal of God on their foreheads. Rev 9:5 And it was given them that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when it striketh a man. Rev 9:6 And in those days men shall seek death, and shall in no wise find it; and they shall desire to die, and death fleeth from them.
You could argue that it's the sealed who are seeking death but I think that's contextually unsound. The flow of meaning is that the men who are stung and in great pain, whether literal or symbolic, seek death in order to be released from their agony. It's a sobering, gruesome picture.
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Re: Some signs will happen again?
[Re: Charity]
#161205
02/03/14 12:07 AM
02/03/14 12:07 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
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One of the many pieces of evidence that the trumpets apply to the future is this text regarding the protection of the sealed from the stings. When are they saints sealed? Most of the inspired sources, for example, Revelation 7, point to the present and a small part of the future.
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Re: Some signs will happen again?
[Re: Charity]
#161225
02/03/14 06:25 AM
02/03/14 06:25 AM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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One of the many pieces of evidence that the trumpets apply to the future is this text regarding the protection of the sealed from the stings. When are they saints sealed? Most of the inspired sources, for example, Revelation 7, point to the present and a small part of the future. Sigh! Were the Ephesians living in the future? Eph. 4:30. ///
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Re: Some signs will happen again?
[Re: Charity]
#161226
02/03/14 06:42 AM
02/03/14 06:42 AM
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Ok , thanks for the clarification. Will respond as time permits.
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Re: Some signs will happen again?
[Re: James Peterson]
#161253
02/03/14 08:28 PM
02/03/14 08:28 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Mr. Peterson,
You must have a deep seeded hatred towards us like the demon possessed woman following Paul and Silas taunting us like this. If you do not believe in the Adventist faith then what would possess you to come here to make any statements what so ever? That goes for all of you Ellen White SDA haters here.
You do know that the first amendment doesn't condone harrassment don't you? If you are here to harrass us, wouldn't that make you a criminal? Why don't you be a good Christian and let us have our faith here please? Weren't those the very words Satan asked the Son of God through the mouth of the Scribes and Pharisees, saying, "Who invited you here? Why don't you leave us alone? We don't want you among us. Are we not right in saying you are a Samaritan and have a demon?" But don't you know that the gospel of the Kingodm of God is to be preached in the house of the Devil? How is it you present yourself as a teacher of the Law and don't know these things? The SDA denomination is not a cult, is it? /// So now you are making references as if we are possessed and you are Christ? Jesus never went where He wasn't needed by men, Satan does. You are not wanted here because you are only here to try to confuse the brethren like Satan would. What denomination are you Mr Peterson? Are you a hateful Catholic looking for revenge? What would possess you to come here?
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Some signs will happen again?
[Re: James Peterson]
#161269
02/04/14 12:15 AM
02/04/14 12:15 AM
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We can read what he says, we don't need you to repeat it. Thank you.
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Re: Some signs will happen again?
[Re: Charity]
#161277
02/04/14 02:16 AM
02/04/14 02:16 AM
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"The historic interpretation of the trumpets are sound that are set out by Miller and other pioneers."
Not necessarily. Allow me to build an historical foundation.
Why the confusion?
The "trumpets" issue has been set forth by human wisdom for many centuries. Uninspired minds have privately interpreted the issue, irrespective of "..no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." (2 Peter 1:20)
Uriah Smith
His book, originally entitled "THOUGHTS on Daniel and the Revelation, and then later changed to , "Daniel and the Revelation", explains the subject of the 7 Trumpets. Notice that elder Smith is not the original author of the exposition of the trumpets. The originators were Messengers. Keith, Clark, Barnes, et al.(Daniel and the Revelation, p.506)
In that book, we read an explanation of Rev. 9:17, " As the Turks discharged their firearms on horseback, it would appear to the distant beholder, that the fire, smoke, and brimstone issued out of the horses' mouths, as illustrated by the accompanying plate (picture) (Ibid. p.510)
Thus we see that the interpretation of the seven trumpets, as found in the referenced book, was not originated by the SDA denomination. But their placing and endorsement upon it appears as a SDA doctrine. In other words, the theories of uninspired men, having the SDA stamp of approval are made to appear as genuine SDA Bible doctrines. The admonishment, "Is it true, By whom is it advocated?" (Tes. to Min.p.106)is made to appear that if it comes through a popular channel (has a stamp of approval) then it MUST be true.
An example of these man-made interpretations is that the book's interpretations of, "fire, smoke and brimstone" does not come from the "lion like mouths" but rather from a turkish gun!
The accepting of these additions and subtractions to and from the Holy Writ, a practice condemned by the Scriptures (Rev. 22:18, 19) shows that they are victims of faulty vision, which cause them to think themselves right when they are all wrong. (Testimonies, vol. 3, p.252, 253)
This practice undermines faith in the Bible, for if the Revelator was wrong in one instance, then can he not be wrong in another? If we cannot depend on the book of Revelation just as it reads, then how can we put confidence any other part of the Bible?
If John or any of the other prophets cannot be depended upon to declare what they see, then how can uninspired men be depended on what they see?
I'll post more on this historical foundation soon.
Last edited by Godsloveandlaw; 02/04/14 02:19 AM.
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Re: Some signs will happen again?
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#161291
02/04/14 04:06 AM
02/04/14 04:06 AM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2019
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
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So now you are making references as if we are possessed and you are Christ?
Jesus never went where He wasn't needed by men, Satan does. You are not wanted here because you are only here to try to confuse the brethren like Satan would.
What denomination are you Mr Peterson? Are you a hateful Catholic looking for revenge? What would possess you to come here? Was Jesus wanted in Jerusalem? Hardly. He himself wept over the city because of their stubborn attitude to the gospel of the Kingdom. It's not hard to understand why. The Jews were the first Seventh-day Adventist. And I suspect, from your strident rhetoric, that the chip never falls far from the old block. Why not, like me, simply discuss the trumpets instead of blowing your own so VERY cantankerously loudly? ///
Last edited by James Peterson; 02/04/14 04:07 AM.
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Re: Some signs will happen again?
[Re: James Peterson]
#161301
02/04/14 03:53 PM
02/04/14 03:53 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Criminal harassment has it's own rewards. God is watching you.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Some signs will happen again?
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#161316
02/05/14 04:05 AM
02/05/14 04:05 AM
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SDA Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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Criminal harassment has it's own rewards. God is watching you. Satan led men to conceive of God as a being whose chief attribute is stern justice,--one who is a severe judge, a harsh, exacting creditor. He pictured the Creator as a being who is watching with jealous eye to discern the errors and mistakes of men, that He may visit judgments upon them. It was to remove this dark shadow, by revealing to the world the infinite love of God, that Jesus came to live among men. {SC 10.3}
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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