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Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again?
#16139
11/07/05 11:20 AM
11/07/05 11:20 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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quote:
It wasn't just the flesh that man trusted in, but in the lie about God which the serpent told.
Yes Tom, that is very true. Thank you for adding that.
My post above was especially meant to help those who seem to think that the “flesh” is so much the problem. The problem is not the flesh itself but that faith has been put in it, so it rules. Thus the enemy can easily tempt through the 5 senses, etc. and continue to influence and infuse a false picture of God.
So while my post covered only one facet of the issues; it seems to be a big one for some, according to this thread and the one on Romans 7.
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Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again?
#16140
11/07/05 02:43 PM
11/07/05 02:43 PM
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The mind of the old man is crucified when we are born again. Therefore, the only source of internally generated temptations is - sinful flesh, which is also the channel through which we are tempted externally.
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Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again?
#16141
11/08/05 03:41 AM
11/08/05 03:41 AM
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How much effect and influence or suggestive temptation can one have upon you whom you deplorably distrust? A temptation is only a temptation when you have a value for that which you are being tempted with. If you do not care for something, you cannot be tempted by that which you do not care for. quote:
for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
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Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again?
#16142
11/08/05 01:57 PM
11/08/05 01:57 PM
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John, such a thing sounds wonderful. But let me make sure I'm understanding you corectly. Are you saying that if we are truly converted we will not be tempted internally or externally?
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Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again?
#16143
11/10/05 11:41 PM
11/10/05 11:41 PM
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Yes it is wonderful,
You cannot control the “birds” that fly by your window, but you certainly can control whether they come in your house, and you can control whether you sit at the window and watch them.
The point is that when faith has been severed with the “flesh” and the “old man”; when the enmity which was between us and God is now placed between us and the flesh or the carnal mind; when faith has established that you live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, and that you will not trust yourself, then the doors to temptation are closed.
The question is who is the master of the house and if he has been given permission to cleanse it. Too many have the Lord only as a guest and not as the master of their house.
Joh 10:10 … I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
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Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again?
#16144
11/12/05 03:07 AM
11/12/05 03:07 AM
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In saying that the doors to temptation are closed are you implying we cannot be tempted internally or externally? Or, that we will not act them out? Can our sinful flesh nature continue to tempt us from within with unholy thoughts and feelings?
Also, when we invite Jesus into the house of our hearts and minds, what kind of cleaning is left for Him to do? Are there closets of unknown sins that have yet to be discovered and revealed to us?
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Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again?
#16145
11/11/05 05:36 PM
11/11/05 05:36 PM
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quote:
Also, when we invite Jesus into the house of our hearts and minds, what kind of cleaning is left for Him to do? Are there closets of unknown sins that have yet to be discovered and revealed to us?
This is an excellent question, although we should be careful not to think of "sins" in a superficial way. The sin of sins is the crucifixion of Christ. Are there depths of guilt that we have relating to this sin of which we are unaware? Is there a repentance within us which should deepen as we become more fully aware of our involvement? Are there depths of truth regarding ourselves, and God, to be revealed to us, which will result in cleansing?
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Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again?
#16146
11/12/05 02:14 PM
11/12/05 02:14 PM
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More excellent questions, Tom. Thank you. A couple more now to help clarify the issue. Does the work of deepening repentance reveal unknown sins, character flaws Jesus hasn't yet brought to our attention? Or, is it a powerful process of understanding more fully how our past sins contributed to awesome price Jesus paid for us on the cross to secure our salvation?
The depths of guilt and the depths of truth that you referred to, things about us, things within us that require cleaning - are they things that will rise up against us in judgment if we do not cooperate with the Holy Spirit to remedy or remove them? Or, is it part of the powerful process that will go on for eternity, throughout the ceaseless ages, as God opens the eyes of our understanding regarding the cross more and more fully and deeply?
1SM 403
The theme of redemption will employ the minds of the redeemed through all eternity. There will be new and rich developments made manifest in the plan of salvation throughout eternal ages. {1SM 403.2}
DA 494, 495
The only way in which we can gain a more perfect apprehension of truth is by keeping the heart tender and subdued by the Spirit of Christ. The soul must be cleansed from vanity and pride, and vacated of all that has held it in possession, and Christ must be enthroned within. Human science is too limited to comprehend the atonement. The plan of redemption is so far-reaching that philosophy cannot explain it. It will ever remain a mystery that the most profound reasoning cannot fathom. The science of salvation cannot be explained; but it can be known by experience. Only he who sees his own sinfulness can discern the preciousness of the Saviour. {DA 494.4}
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Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again?
#16147
11/14/05 06:19 PM
11/14/05 06:19 PM
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The judgment just reveals what we are, doesn't it? That is, what is in us. So the answer is, yes, whatever is in us will appear in the judgment. The things we are unaware of because we haven't had light about them will not "count against us", but nevertheless have the effect of negatively impacting the work God has in mind for the 144,000.
It's an interesting point you bring up about a cleansing going on throughout eternity. I hadn't thought of it that way, but I think the way you put it is valid, and glad you mentioned it, as it gives me food for thought.
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Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again?
#16148
11/15/05 02:08 AM
11/15/05 02:08 AM
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quote:
In saying that the doors to temptation are closed are you implying we cannot be tempted internally or externally? Or, that we will not act them out? Can our sinful flesh nature continue to tempt us from within with unholy thoughts and feelings?
Your questions MM lead and think in terms of the inverse and that is negative to eternal life. Instead of seeking the way of good, they are dealing with resisting temptation. They reveal that the dealing is with the old man; therefore it is not crucified in your thinking, and insofar as it is not, Christ is crucified.
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
So therefore for temptation to come there has to be lust, and for lust to exist there has to be the owner of it. So “his own lust”. This is how it is with those who are carnal, who at best are in the way of repentance and baptism of John (not to be despised-but a step that prepares the way), and at worst pharisaic. Obviously if the lust is there, it has not been crucified. But they which are led by the spirit are as:
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Now think about that what it means. If the flesh with the affections and lusts is crucified, where will the temptation come from? How will you be drawn away? Perhaps this would need some prayerful thought.
quote:
Also, when we invite Jesus into the house of our hearts and minds, what kind of cleaning is left for Him to do? Are there closets of unknown sins that have yet to be discovered and revealed to us?
Again these questions are thinking in terms of the inverse which never brings righteousness. It is the way Satan would like us to look at things. By searching for potential unknown sins, we will never in a million years even begin to come to satisfaction. In fact we will become more and more cynical. It is called doubt and accusation. It is exactly these insinuations of potential sins which Satan leveled against Job. So if we think in terms of potential or hidden sins, we think according to the principles of Satan. The thought of potential sins is rooted in doubt and accusation. Let us never think that Christ ever thinks or works according to these principles.
God’s way is the way of faith and trust. The position of the child of God is that of:
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
God’s way is the way of life, it is uplifting, it is sanctifying, it is glorifying. Where there is goodwill, there is no illwill. Where there is faith there is no doubt. Where there is love there is no hate. So the cleansing is from sin to righteousness; from thinking in terms of sin to thinking in terms of righteousness.
Great is thy faithfulness oh God my Father!
[ November 15, 2005, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: John Boskovic ]
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