Are you saying that sin does not kill?

So are you saying that it is true that "God will torture and destroy the lost in hell-fire that annihilates"?

Or are you saying there is partial truth in it?

But you indicate that it is not true that "God will torture the lost in an ever burning hell".

So how long of time do you think God will torture people?

So you expect APL to spread the message that God kills? Is that the Good News?

'Pardon me ma'am. I got some really Good News for you. God is going to kill those who disagree with Him. Don't you want to love and follow Him so He won't kill you?'

Is that the 'good news' you're spreading?

GC, you make an excellent point. The third angel's message is a warning and a promise - Everyone who receives the mark of the beast will suffer the wrath of God in the lake of fire.

Woe unto those who refuse to warn the world, who refuse to proclaim the third angel's message:

Ezekiel
3:17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

These arguments go back to deeper theological differences than merely what causes the death of the lost in the end.

The one position gets rid of the whole legal system of God's government, His law, His authority as the law Giver, and the penalties of transgressing the law.

It turns everything into NATURAL cause and effect.
The argument would lead us to believe that God didn't make any laws -- He only warned of cause and effect.
The argument would lead us to believe there is no penalty in God's government for disobedience, just a reaping of natural effect.
Even the eating of the forbidden fruit is given a "natural" explanation that it contained some fearful thing in it, rather than that God would actually punish them for transgression by cutting them off from the tree of life.

In that argument Christ didn't have to die to vindicate God's law by suffering the penalty of that law, or to make it possible to forgive sins;
He died only to show what sin does, and demonstrate His love.

It removes from God any authority as a law giving King and Sovereign and Creator, and only allows Him to let cause and effect play out.

Personally I don't think the above vindicates God at all, it belittles Him.

Yes, God is allowing sin to play out it's cause and effect to show that His government is righteous and good and love.
He doesn't want forced obedience but obedience because we know His laws are righteous, holy and just.

But His allowing sin to play out it's cause and effect does not negate His right and sovereign power to be the Law Giver and punish the transgressors.

Those who transgress against God have insulted God twice over --
1. They only have life in the first place because God blessed them with it.
2. Christ's death on the cross is a love filled invitation to forsake the ways of death by His power and His blood, and come to fountain of life and live eternally.

And we should chose Him because He made it possible by sending Jesus to suffer the wrath demanded by the law against transgression, so we could have life eternal in His just and loving government.

Everyone who doesn't chose life in Christ will die in the lake of fire no matter how you rephrase it.

The gospel -- good news is --
Christ died to wipe away your sins and give you a clean slate -- to give you His merits to present before the throne of God, which alone are good enough to enter heaven, and He will give you the Holy Spirit to lead you into putting away sin and living as a child of God awaiting His coming with eager anticipation.

Why are some of you basing your soteriology on the doctrine of the immortality of the soul? Dig deeper.

And what is God's wrath? Read Romans 1!

Do they not understand the implications of their teaching? God is not the problem, SIN is! It is Sin that kills.

Sin does not kill. The results of sinning may or may not end in suffering or first death. Jesus manages the outcome of sinful choices.


The truth is sinners eventually die the first death because Jesus denies them access to the tree of life. Otherwise, they would live forever as sinners. Which is proof sin does not kill sinners.

Is it a type of greenism? God's wrath is under discussion, so he defines what is under discussion by using the term?