Johan, thank you for the excellent suggestion. I'm semi-retired and spend about 5 hours a day hiking while listening to the Bible and SOP on an iPod. "Faith cometh by hearing . . . the word of God." I've been doing this for about 14 years. One thing is clear:

Exodus
34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear [the guilty]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth [generation].

Revelation
14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Ellen White used the phrase "a most painful death." That did not come from me. I did use quotation marks, and the post should be clear--so I'm not sure how you are managing to avert your eyes from the truth.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

So, where will you go from there, Green?

Where does EGW say God inflicted the "most painful death"? Yes, Christ suffered a most painful death, but how was God involved exactly?

"Christ the sinless became sin for man. He bore the guilt of transgression, and the hiding of His Father's face".

The hiding of the face. Where have you read that before? Oh - all over the Old Testament! Deuteronomy, Job, Psalms, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Micah. What killed the Son of God? Answer: SIN.

"Cease to cherish and excuse sin; for sin caused the death of the Son of God." {GW92 466.2} "The sacrificial offerings were ordained by God to be to man a perpetual reminder and a penitential acknowledgment of his sin and a confession of his faith in the promised Redeemer. They were intended to impress upon the fallen race the solemn truth that it was sin that caused death." {PP 68.1}

Wait!! Sin causes death? Not God? That is correct. And it is Bibical? YES!

"Keep before the people the cross of Calvary. Show what caused the death of Christ--the transgression of the law." {6T 54.1}

Wait!! Transgression of the law causes the death? (ie sin) Not God? Correct!

You are gravely in error.



By your statement, in comparison with Mrs. White's testimony, quoting a holy angel, you would force us to believe that God's wrath is sin.

You are wrong. God's wrath is not sinful, nor is it sin. There is not a particle of sin in God.

It grieves me that you would misrepresent God as being sinful in doing what He will do--cause the destruction of the wicked. That is Satan's claim. Satan wants us to believe that God is not justified in carrying out the death sentence upon transgressors of the Divine law. But not only is God justified in doing this, He has redeemed His right to such justice by the death of Jesus, and has been merciful beyond any requirement in His law to delay the execution of His justice as long as He has. It is this very mercy that is a wonder to the watching universe. When His justice finally comes, we are told that all will say "Amen."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

God wrath - what is it?
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 1:24 Why God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

God's wrath is exactly as EGW has said it was in {GC 36.1}. God is not the executioner. When divine forbearance is reached, God gives the sinner up, lets them go, and yes, all hell breaks loose. Sin pays its wage. You falsely accuse me of believing that sinners do not parish. The real cause of death is sin, not God. We have so much evidence in scripture.

Sin: I know God is not a killer/murder, the only one accusing God of sin is who, me? Nope.

Though they professed to know and to worship the true and living God, they wholly misrepresented him and his character as revealed in his Son. Christ labored constantly to sweep away those misrepresentations, that the confidence of men in the love of God might be restored. {AU Gleaner, June 9, 1909 par. 5}

APL, it is fruitless for you to explain your view since you refuse to confess Jesus commanded capital punishment and war. If you cannot confess the obvious, who in their right mind will believe anything you say?

I think that quote both answers the thread question and the question about God's taking life.

As the old saying goes, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away." He who gave life has the power to remove it. Not only so, but He does.

There's a hidden truth in the following:



If Abraham's sacrifice of his son Isaac was but a type for a future Sacrifice, why didn't God tell Abraham that his son would "self destruct," or be killed by a lion/wolf/serpent to represent Satan's involvement or destruction by sin? Why was Abraham himself commanded to kill his son?

The same God who would, for the good of mankind, slay His own Son, would also, for the good of the universe, destroy all who willfully reject His salvation and continue in rebellion and disobedience.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Sigh - - God is not the executioner. When a sinner's limit is reached, what does God do, kill the sinner? No, He leaves the sinner, and allows the sinner to reap that which they have sown. Without God's intervention, sin will destroy the sinner.

Guess which quote of EGW I am using.

And NO - God did not Slay His own son.

Hebrews 12:2-3

King James Version (KJV)

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.


Sinners opposed Jesus at the cross. What does that mean?