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Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16189
11/30/05 03:59 PM
11/30/05 03:59 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Fancy you should imply I am advocating we change from physical beings to spirit beings when we are born again. What gave you that impression?

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16190
12/01/05 04:23 AM
12/01/05 04:23 AM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
You misread what I wrote. I said we were created as physical beings. That means that we don't have anything called a spiritual component. That is all I said.

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16191
12/01/05 04:51 AM
12/01/05 04:51 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Okay, but how do you define the use of the words "spirit" and "spiritual" in the Bible as it relates to us?

Romans
8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

1 Corinthians
15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16192
11/30/05 05:13 PM
11/30/05 05:13 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
I have only two comments.

To be spiritually minded is to have a mind towards the things of the Spirit. That is all it can mean.

Regarding Paul's statement that it is raised a spiritual body, I do not find the need to perpetuate Paul's misunderstandings. The man was human and also subject to mistakes.

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16193
11/30/05 10:36 PM
11/30/05 10:36 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
Regarding Paul's statement that it is raised a spiritual body, I do not find the need to perpetuate Paul's misunderstandings.
If Paul was in error in what he wrote, what source are you using to impeach him? That is, what makes you think Paul was wrong?

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16194
11/30/05 10:50 PM
11/30/05 10:50 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Tom asked:
>>
If Paul was in error in what he wrote, what source are you using to impeach him? That is, what makes you think Paul was wrong?
>>
The evidence. Strange that we have no difficulty "impeaching" David when he proclaimed that the earth is fixed. We realize that he was as wrong as two left feet on that statement. The evidence proved it. The evidence is that the Creator is Spirit and we are physical. We have a relationship with Him but that does not make us spiritual anymore than our relationships with our cars would make us mechanical.

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16195
12/01/05 01:29 PM
12/01/05 01:29 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Darius,

I'm not understanding what you are trying to say. There is no spirit as a separate entity, but that part of us with which we relate to God is called "spirit". Otherwise, what did Jesus mean when He said, "Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak"?

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16196
12/01/05 01:59 PM
12/01/05 01:59 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Rosangela, here is what Roberts Word Pictures offers on the use of spirit in that text:

Spirit (pneuma)
here is the moral life (intellext, will, emotionv) as opposed to the flesh (cf. Isaiah 31:3; Romans 7:25).

I like how the Worldwide English (New Testament))
renders it:

41Watch and talk with God, so that you will not do wrong. A person's heart can want to do it, but his body is weak.'

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16197
12/01/05 02:47 PM
12/01/05 02:47 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Darius, I'm going to ignore, for now, the inference that Paul and David were mistaken. But what about the purpose of this thread? What do you think happens to our internal foes, our internal promptings to sin, the mind and voice of our carnal mind sinful flesh nature, when we are born again? Please feel free to quote from the Pauline epistles, if you think it would be helpful (no sarcasm intended). Thank you.

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16198
12/01/05 03:59 PM
12/01/05 03:59 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
MM, why would you deny the facts by ignoring them. Paul and David were both human. I don't think you have any difficulty asserting that the chosen people of God were mistaken in rejecting Jesus as the Messiah. What makes them different from Paul and David?

Regarding your question, our difference may lie in our understanding of what it means to be born again. To be born again is not a magic transformation. Nothing happens to our natures. We simply transfer our allegiance to the one who is the Author of our lives. This does not silence the voice of our former master nor the inclinations with which we have become accustomed over the years. But what is true of dogs is true of these as well. The one you feed will grow.

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