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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#161793
02/14/14 02:17 PM
02/14/14 02:17 PM
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"a most painful death"
Did God torture Him?
Oh, wait, do I see you did say that. But Ellen White did not.
Don't suppose that will make a difference to your opinion....
Ellen White used the phrase "a most painful death." That did not come from me. I did use quotation marks, and the post should be clear--so I'm not sure how you are managing to avert your eyes from the truth. Blessings, Green Cochoa. You said: While many of us may die in peace, God did impose a painful death on the Son of God. But quote: "He bore insult and mockery, and a most painful death in the most shameful I feel it will be as fruitful as in past topics to try and convince you that she did not say what you are saying. Sigh.....
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#161794
02/14/14 02:20 PM
02/14/14 02:20 PM
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God must punish murderers. He gives life, and He will take life, if that life becomes a terror and a menace (MS 126, 1901). I think that quote both answers the thread question and the question about God's taking life. . Are you saying God will only punish/kill murderers?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: kland]
#161809
02/14/14 05:35 PM
02/14/14 05:35 PM
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God must punish murderers. He gives life, and He will take life, if that life becomes a terror and a menace (MS 126, 1901).
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#161811
02/14/14 06:11 PM
02/14/14 06:11 PM
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MM - WHY do you ignore HOW God brings on the punishment????
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#161812
02/14/14 06:20 PM
02/14/14 06:20 PM
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"He is the Friend of all who love and fear Him, and He will punish everyone who dares to lead [others] astray". "His wrath will go forth, and he will destroy without remedy." Of all the sins that God will punish, none are more grievous in His sight than those that encourage others to do evil. {CC 98.5} Note that it is God, not sin, that will punish sinners.What will be the wages of such a man? The indignation and wrath of God will punish him for sin. {2T 454.2} Note that the wages of sin is the indignation and wrath of God. God, not sin, punish sinners.But in His death Christ gave evidence to the heavenly universe that God will punish for the sins of a guilty world. The cross of Christ testifies that the law is not changed to meet the sinner in his sins, but that through Christ's sacrifice the sinner has opportunity to repent. {BEcho, May 30, 1898 par. 2} Note that it is God, not sin, that will punish sinners.The crisis is fast approaching. The rapidly swelling figures show that the time for God's visitation has about come. Although loath to punish, nevertheless He will punish, and that speedily. {CCh 333.2}
God has given in His word decisive evidence that He will punish the transgressors of His law. {DD 16.4}
“It shall come to pass at that time,” saith the Lord, “that I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees; that say in their heart, The Lord will not do good, neither will he do evil.” [Zephaniah 1:12.] “I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.” [Isaiah 13:11.] {GC88 309.3}
In the exercise of the longsuffering of God, He gives to nations a certain period of probation, but there is a point which, if they pass, there will be the visitation of God in His indignation. He will punish. {3SM 396.3}
The case of Uzziah the king reveals how God will punish the sin of presumption. {3BC 1132.6}
But the time will come when God will punish those who have made void His law, and their evil work will recoil upon themselves (MS 63, 1899). {4BC 1168.8}
God has given in his word abundant evidence that he will punish the transgressors of his law. Witness the visitation of his judgments upon the angels who kept not their first estate, on the inhabitants of the antediluvian world, on the people of Sodom, on unbelieving Israel. Their history is placed on record for our admonition. {4SP 360.3}
The Lord is not regardless of His people, and He will punish and reprove everyone who oppresses them. . . He is the Friend of all who love and fear Him, and He will punish everyone who dares to lead them astray from safe paths, putting them in positions of distress as they conscientiously endeavor to keep the way of the Lord and reach the abodes of the righteous. {UL 364.5}
While he bears long with the perversity and iniquity of those who profess to be Christians, but who are so only in name, God never forgets, and he will punish their transgressions and visit their iniquities. {RH, November 18, 1884 par. 5}
He is indignant with those who are greatly dishonoring him; and unless they change, he will punish them for their sins. {RH, January 12, 1911 par. 12} God says, " I will punish the transgressor with my wrath, I will take him away in my hot displeasure." . . . In the days of Noah, the wickedness of man became so great that it was necessary for God to assert his authority and punish the transgressors of his law. . . the Lord swept that wicked race from the earth by the waters of the flood. {ST, December 15, 1881 par. 13} God is infinitely holy, and he hates every species of iniquity. He is great in power, and he will punish the mightiest with the most depraved. He first gives to transgressors oft-repeated warnings. If the heart is hardened, if it refuses to heed the warnings given, and to accept the means of salvation, God will make men feel that as he has exalted and favored them, so he has to do with their casting down. When God has forsaken those whom he has highly favored, no earthly power can avail. God is long-suffering, not willing that any should perish; but his forbearance has a limit, and when the boundary is passed, there is no second probation. His wrath will go forth, and he will destroy without remedy. {YI, March 28, 1905 par. 8}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#161813
02/14/14 06:21 PM
02/14/14 06:21 PM
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MM - why do you ignore the Biblical definition of God's wrath????
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: APL]
#161814
02/14/14 06:25 PM
02/14/14 06:25 PM
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MM - WHY do you ignore HOW God brings on the punishment???? You are mistaken. I have not ignored HOW or WHY. I agree with you Jesus punishes sinners by withdrawing His restraining hand and permitting evil men and/or evil angels to mete out justice and judgment. However, I disagree with you this is the only ways and means Jesus employs to punish sinners. I have repeatedly stated on this thread and elsewhere the other ways and means He employs.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: APL]
#161816
02/14/14 06:35 PM
02/14/14 06:35 PM
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Then the end will come. God will vindicate His law and deliver His people. Satan and all who have joined him in rebellion will be cut off. Sin and sinners will perish, root and branch, (Malachi 4:1),--Satan the root, and his followers the branches. The word will be fulfilled to the prince of evil, "Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; . . . I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. . . . Thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." Then "the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be;" "they shall be as though they had not been." Ezekiel 28:6-19; Psalm 37:10; Obadiah 16. {DA 763.4}
This is not an act of arbitrary power on the part of God. The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life. He is "alienated from the life of God." Christ says, "All they that hate Me love death." Ephesians 4:18; Proverbs 8:36. God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them. {DA 764.1}
At the beginning of the great controversy, the angels did not understand this. Had Satan and his host then been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable result of sin. A doubt of God's goodness would have remained in their minds as evil seed, to produce its deadly fruit of sin and woe. {DA 764.2}
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: APL]
#161848
02/15/14 03:19 AM
02/15/14 03:19 AM
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The following insight addresses APL's argument:
Christians commit a terrible mistake in calling this law [the law of Moses] severe and arbitrary, and then contrasting it with the gospel and mission of Christ in his ministry on earth, as though he were in opposition to the just precepts which they call the law of Moses. {RH, May 6, 1875 par. 12}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 3)
[Re: Mountain Man]
#161852
02/15/14 04:53 AM
02/15/14 04:53 AM
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Thanks for reminding me of this article. I was interested to see my previous markings in it.
The law of Jehovah, dating back to creation, was comprised in the two great principles, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. This is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these."
Continuing on: These two great principles embrace the first four commandments, showing the duty of man to God, and the last six, showing the duty of man to his fellow-man. The principles were more explicitly stated to man after the fall, and worded to meet the case of fallen intelligences. This was necessary in consequence of the minds of men being blinded by transgression. {RH, May 6, 1875 par. 13}
But back up some: "The necessity of this [the law] to preserve the people of God from becoming like the nations who had not the love and fear of God, is the same in this corrupt age, when the transgression of God's law prevails and idolatry exists to a fearful extent. If ancient Israel needed such security, we need it more, to keep us from being utterly confounded with the transgressors of God's law. The hearts of men are so prone to depart from God that there is a necessity for restraint and discipline." {RH, May 6, 1875 par. 6} I guess we need to stonings today for we need to the law even more!!! Perhaps we can make it part of the church service? [grief]
Two paragraphs on the article describes how ignorant the people were who left Egypt. They were ignorant, rebellious, rejectors of God's law. God still worked with them even when they wanted to do things their way.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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