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Re: God's love not unconditional
[Re: kland]
#162092
02/20/14 12:28 PM
02/20/14 12:28 PM
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I guess the clarification I would make is this; God's love is conditional upon our choice. God's desire has always been for all His creatures to be saved. Unfortunately, we disagree with God and end up choosing to be lost.
That is not God's fault! I think previous posters had said it was unconditional. Us choosing to be lost, does not change the condition of His love. But maybe you are questioning the definition of love. And does it mean the same as "care"? I could say God's love is unconditional to a point. But, once I say "to a point", it becomes conditional. So, to try and clarify my earlier response, once the wicked are completely destroyed, I don't believe God still retains love for those whom He had to destroy. I don't believe that God will go through the ceaseless ages yearning for those people He destroyed. Consequently, I do believe God's love has a limit. I hope I was clearer?
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Re: God's love not unconditional
[Re: danielw]
#162095
02/20/14 01:12 PM
02/20/14 01:12 PM
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I could say God's love is unconditional to a point. But, once I say "to a point", it becomes conditional.
So, to try and clarify my earlier response, once the wicked are completely destroyed, I don't believe God still retains love for those whom He had to destroy. I don't believe that God will go through the ceaseless ages yearning for those people He destroyed. Consequently, I do believe God's love has a limit.
I hope I was clearer? I look at this differently. I would explain the apparent discrepancy by saying there are two kinds of "love" which God has and are recorded in His Word. The first kind is that ingrained in His very character. God IS love. In this sense, God always loves every creature, regardless. For example, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son" applies to everyone. The second kind is that which corresponds to His acceptance. It is more similar, perhaps, to the word "like." In this sense, God only "loves" those who have His spirit in their hearts and who desire to serve Him. For example, "For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth" applies to this group, and not to everyone. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: God's love not unconditional
[Re: Alchemy]
#162172
02/22/14 05:57 AM
02/22/14 05:57 AM
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I could say God's love is unconditional to a point. But, once I say "to a point", it becomes conditional.
So, to try and clarify my earlier response, once the wicked are completely destroyed, I don't believe God still retains love for those whom He had to destroy. I don't believe that God will go through the ceaseless ages yearning for those people He destroyed. Consequently, I do believe God's love has a limit. I know two couples who have lost toddlers. They do not spend their days crying over their loss. However, I don't think they love them any less. Consider David's reaction to Absalom's death. If David could love his son who had attempted to kill him, can't we envision that God can love His wayward children at least as much? The destruction of the impenitent is no less an act of love than the salvation of the repentant.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: God's love not unconditional
[Re: danielw]
#162177
02/22/14 10:25 AM
02/22/14 10:25 AM
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Well said, Arnold, especially that last line. It bears repeating...
"The destruction of the impenitent is no less an act of love than the salvation of the repentant."
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: God's love not unconditional
[Re: danielw]
#162179
02/22/14 12:42 PM
02/22/14 12:42 PM
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"The destruction of the impenitent is no less an act of love than the salvation of the repentant."
Exactly, but those who are the devils advocate believe that wicked men are justified to live forever without God. They see men as having some kind of licence to live without God. Some kind of celestial rights that do not include God and being Holy.
Without true conversion it would be better for the universe for fallen men to die and the earth to vanish. Thank God for His promise to recreate us in His image to restore harmony in the Universe.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: God's love not unconditional
[Re: danielw]
#162186
02/22/14 05:36 PM
02/22/14 05:36 PM
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"God is love." Can't imagine love not loving someone.
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Re: God's love not unconditional
[Re: Mountain Man]
#162208
02/23/14 03:24 AM
02/23/14 03:24 AM
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"God is love." They cannot not love. Their love is unconditional. However, salvation is very much conditional. Excellent post, MM. It's because of God's love for us that Jesus risked everything for our salvation. Unfortunately, we often choose to reject salvation anyway.
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Re: God's love not unconditional
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#162209
02/23/14 03:29 AM
02/23/14 03:29 AM
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I think I understand what you are saying Green.
My point had more to do with time. God loves everyone now, no matter what! In the time of the New Heaven and New Earth, the lost will be forgotten. I believe God even forgets them.
I know God will always "know" everything past, present and future. I mean He will no longer have love for those who were destroyed.
It does work for me with all I know from Scripture.
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Re: God's love not unconditional
[Re: danielw]
#162213
02/23/14 04:25 AM
02/23/14 04:25 AM
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Why does the Bible speak of certain ones as being "greatly beloved" or "the one whom Jesus loved?" I'm not convinced that God loves all equally. This has to do with sin...God cannot love sin. The less sin we have in our character, the more ability God has to love us, in a sense. An interesting statement I just read this morning from Mrs. White's writings indicates that not all lives are equal in value. Invalids, I advise you to venture something. Arouse your will power, and at least make a trial of this matter. Withdraw your thoughts and affections from yourselves. Walk out by faith. Are you inclined to center your thoughts upon yourselves, fearing to exercise, and fearing that if you expose yourself to the air you will lose your life; resist these thoughts and feelings. Do not yield to your diseased imagination. If you fail in the trial, you can but die. And what if you do die? One life might better be lost than many sacrificed. The whims and notions which you cherish are not only destroying your own life, but injuring those whose lives are more valuable than yours. But the course we recommend will not deprive you of life or injure you. You will derive benefit from it. You need not be rash or reckless; commence moderately at first to have more air and exercise, and continue your reform until you become useful, a blessing to your families and to all around you. Let your judgment be convinced that exercise, sunlight, and air are the blessings which Heaven has provided to make the sick well and to keep in health those who are not sick. God does not deprive you of these free, Heaven-bestowed blessings, but you have punished yourselves by closing your doors against them. Properly used, these simple yet powerful agents will assist nature to overcome real difficulties, if such exist, and will give healthy tone to the mind and vigor to the body. {2T 534.2} That's a rather interesting statement. Of course, if "love" is related to "value," this would help to answer the topic question. I'm not saying this is necessarily so, but I do see a good case could be made for it. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: God's love not unconditional
[Re: danielw]
#162242
02/23/14 05:37 PM
02/23/14 05:37 PM
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No Respect of Persons with God
The religion of Christ uplifts the receiver to a higher plane of thought and action, while at the same time it presents the whole human race as alike the objects of the love of God, being purchased by the sacrifice of His Son. At the feet of Jesus, the rich and the poor, the learned and the ignorant, meet together, with no thought of caste or worldly pre-eminence. All earthly distinctions are forgotten as we look upon Him whom our sins have pierced. The self-denial, the condescension, the infinite compassion of Him who was highly exalted in heaven, puts to shame human pride, self-esteem, and social caste. Pure, undefiled religion manifests its heaven-born principles in bringing into oneness all who are sanctified through the truth. All meet as blood-bought souls, alike dependent upon Him who has redeemed them to God. {GW 330.1}
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Satan declared that there is no forgiveness with God; that if God should forgive sin, he would make his law of no effect. He says to the sinner, You are lost. {RH, January 19, 1911 par. 16}
Christ came to this world to prove the falsity of this statement, to show that God is love, that like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him. Follow the Saviour from the manger to the cross, mark his life of unselfish ministry, his agony in the garden, and his death on the cross; and know that with God there is plenteous forgiveness. He abhors sin, but with a love that passes knowledge he loves the sinner. {RH, January 19, 1911 par. 17}
God will forever remember those whom He has lost.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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