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Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16199
12/01/05 07:31 PM
12/01/05 07:31 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Tom asked:
>>
If Paul was in error in what he wrote, what source are you using to impeach him? That is, what makes you think Paul was wrong?
>>
The evidence. Strange that we have no difficulty "impeaching" David when he proclaimed that the earth is fixed. We realize that he was as wrong as two left feet on that statement. The evidence proved it. The evidence is that the Creator is Spirit and we are physical. We have a relationship with Him but that does not make us spiritual anymore than our relationships with our cars would make us mechanical.
-----------------------------------------------

You were disagreeing with Paul over his contention that our bodies will be raised as spiritual bodies. You contend Paul is wrong on the basis of the evidence. What evidence? What makes you think you have a better ideas what our bodies will be like when resurrected than Paul does? I believe Paul knew what he was talking about because he received special revelation from God. The evidence that Paul can be trusted is that for many centuries now millions have proven the truth of his words. What evidence is there that your ideas about our resurrected bodies are more to be trusted than his? [Confused]

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16200
12/01/05 07:38 PM
12/01/05 07:38 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Tom. you now have the option of showing that Adam and Eve had spiritual bodies before the fall or accepting that the sin experience was a benefit to the human race. Which do you vote for?

Incidentally, I do not believe in special revelation because the Bible contradicts that man-made teaching.

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16201
12/02/05 09:35 PM
12/02/05 09:35 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
One could make a similar argument regarding marriage. God created man and woman to be married, which happened before sin came in the world. Yes Jesus said we would be as angels and not marry in the hereafter. Using the logic you are suggesting, it seems to me that Jesus would be in error.

I don't understand the comment about special revelation. I was quoting Paul, who is in the Bible. So the Bible does not contradict what I said, since it is from the Bible that I got it.

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16202
12/02/05 11:03 PM
12/02/05 11:03 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Tom, I think you need to note that Adam and Eve were not married.

You tried to give the impression that the Bible is the standard of what is absolute truth. No one who has read the book can believe that. The Bible is true only in so far as it reflects what God has put in place.

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16203
12/04/05 06:25 AM
12/04/05 06:25 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
How do you know what God has put in place, if not from the Bible?

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16204
12/04/05 11:18 AM
12/04/05 11:18 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Darius,

I agree with Tom. Adam and Eve were married:

"So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, 'Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it'" (Gen. 1:27,28).

But those who are accounted worthy to attain to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like the angels in heaven (Luke 20:35).

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16205
12/04/05 06:47 PM
12/04/05 06:47 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Marriage is the union of two individuals; two become one. God took Adam and split him into two: one became two. That was not a marriage. Let us remain true to the record.

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16206
12/04/05 06:48 PM
12/04/05 06:48 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Tom, I do not need the Bible to know there are stars in the sky, and trees in the ground. Reality stares me in the face everyday.

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16207
12/04/05 06:54 PM
12/04/05 06:54 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Spiritual things are spiritual discerned. We were talking about whether Paul is correct in stating that we are raised with spiritual bodies. How would you know the truth about this apart from the Bible?

You said the Bible is correct only insofar as it agrees with how God has done things. I'm asking how you know God has done things apart from the Bible.

You mentioned the stars in the sky. How did they get there? How would you know that without the Bible?

Re: What happens to our sinful flesh nature when we are born again? #16208
12/04/05 07:03 PM
12/04/05 07:03 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Tom, this is really simple. Compare the fact of creation with the first appearance of anything resembling the Bible. Do you think that the information did not exist until the Bible was written by the men who wrote it? The Bible is a reflection on reality. It is correct to the extent that the reflections of the men who wrote it was correct. When it teaches that the earth is fixed we understand that this is a reflection of the extent to which the men who wrote it understood astronomy. You can go on from there.

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